Narrator:
Friends, in the previous episode, we were listening to the first part of the conversation between the secret ascetic Shyama Khapa and a close follower of Yogiraj Shyama Charan Lahiri, who arrived at Rajpur Shantikunja. In this episode, you will hear the second part.
Shyama Khapa:
Good point. So, once it was his Guru, Shri Krishna; and another time, the disciple Lahiri Mahasaya, he was Shri Krishna. Ramprasad Sen said something very strange: "It's a tough place where Guru and disciple do not meet." What does that mean? It means they have reached a state through spiritual practice where the disciple has reached where the Guru has reached. There is no distinction, no meeting of separate entities. So, is there no Guru? Yes, certainly there is, of course. Otherwise, how would the disciple have risen so far?
Shyama Khapa:
Yes, then what is the difference between Guru and disciple? The difference is that the Guru has practiced and is sitting on the roof; the disciple climbed the stairs and went to sit on the roof. When they sit on that roof, there is no more meeting of Guru and disciple—the two have merged into one. This is the state. Krishna appeared in the form of Jiva Shyama Charan. At the right time, Babaji Maharaj, in the form of Shiva Shyama Charan, was in Ranikhet. At the exact time when it was time to give him initiation, he was called and given the practice. Shiva Shyama Charan helped Jiva Shyama Charan until Jiva Shyama Charan was elevated to Brahma Shyama Charan.
Shyama Khapa:
What's the matter? He said, what is the first proof? The first proof is: "You initiate them." Why, Father, you are present? No, my relationship is with you. You are Jiva Shyama Charan, I am Shiva Shyama Charan. I have come as your Guru. And your relationship with them is through the world. You are Brahma Shyama Charan. You have a relationship with the entire world. That is the first proof.
Shyama Khapa:
Alright, now for this side. The stories about him being in Gyanganj, his great age—these things were never mentioned by Lahiri Baba. What did Lahiri Baba say about him? After he realized "I am formless Brahman," he didn't write about him in his diary anymore. He used to write everything, including occasional mentions of his Guru. So why doesn't he write now? Does that mean they didn't meet again? If they had, he surely would have written about it.
Shyama Khapa:
Even what is written: "Lust... lust hindered me a lot." Lust hindered me so much yesterday. Even this, he wrote frankly, knowing that this diary might fall into someone's hands in the future. What would they think then? Because it identifies as human. It can happen to a person. I have overcome it. It may come to you too; you must overcome it. This is the proof to show. He came to teach through his life. He is Brahman himself. There was no need for him to come. His appearance was to teach the people of the world. His whole life is a lesson. So, he didn't meet his Guru again.
Shyama Khapa:
What else? His brother-in-law's son, Taraknath Sanyal, was an English professor. One day he said, "If you could call your Guru one day, I could have his darshan." He said, "Alright, I'll let you know later." A few days later, he said, "No, I asked him, and he said he won't give darshan." Fine. One day, while practicing, he suddenly saw his Guru appear. He said, "Father, you're here suddenly at this time?" He said, "Your son Tinkori"—his eldest son's name was Tinkori Lahiri Mahasaya and the youngest son's name was Dukori Lahiri Mahasaya—"that eldest son Tinkori remembered me very much, so I've come." Later, he told his son, "Do not disturb my Guru like this."
Shyama Khapa:
What does that mean? He had to appear in another form. Guru and disciple had merged. This Babaji Maharaj is no longer separate; he has merged into one with Shyama Charan. Where did this picture come from? This is a painted picture. Who painted it? Priyanath Karar was a disciple of Yogiraj Shyama Charan Lahiri Mahasaya, who later became known as Sri Yukteswar Giri. One of the main disciples of Yukteswar Giri was Yogananda Paramahansa. Yogananda's brother, Sananda Lal Ghosh, was a very good artist. He used to paint many people on the Kriya Yoga path. Among them, he painted this picture under Yogananda's direction, suggesting that he might look like this.
Shyama Khapa:
So, that picture is being published today. But remember, it's an imaginary picture. One must remember it's an imaginary picture. Lahiri Baba never gave any photos. Well, later there were two paths: the path of the householder and the path of the monk. The monk's path is mostly followed in the lineage of Yukteswar Giri. Many of them say they have seen him in such-and-such place. I'm not getting into arguments; if someone has seen him, perhaps they saw him. I believe that I appear in whatever form a person practices. If someone remembers Lahiri Baba in the form of Babaji, then perhaps Lahiri Baba appears to them in that form.
Shyama Khapa:
I'm not disbelieving anyone, nor am I trapping anyone in a web of truth or lies. This is what I feel. So, for the one who says he's in Gyanganj, let that remain his belief. It doesn't matter. Now, what's another story about Babaji Maharaj? One day he was traveling by train; it hadn't been long since Shyama Charan Lahiri received initiation. While traveling on the train, he was arguing with four friends—even now, there's a great lack of such sadhus and sannyasis in society. They asked why. He said, "I know one." They said, "Really?" He said, "Give me a room, that compartment in the train. After a while, I'll bring a yogi of that stature to show you." They agreed, and he went into a compartment—the coupe type—to practice. After a while, he appeared, and he showed him. He said, "Father, since you've gracefully come..." He said, "If you remember me like this, I will not come again. I told you that when you need me, I will appear himself." He said, "Father, since you've come gracefully, please remove the doubts of those who are questioning." So, he gracefully gave darshan. After that, he wouldn't come again, saying, "When you need me, I will surely appear." That's it.
Shyama Khapa:
Now, Lahiri Baba's grandson, the youngest son of Tinkori Lahiri Mahasaya, Shri Satyacharan Lahiri Mahasaya—I saw him in Varanasi. He was the Guru of my parents and the Guru of my Guru. Anyway, I have seen him, received his blessings, spent some time with him, visited his feet, and found peace. He stayed at Satyalok in Varanasi. The house is still there.
Shyama Khapa:
So, that Satyacharan Lahiri Mahasaya said in a discussion that many people come to me and say they met your grandfather's Guru, Babaji Maharaj, in such-and-such place. Fine. I tell them only one thing: if you met him, why have you come to me for Kriya initiation? You could have taken it from him, such a great person. No, I'm speaking plainly. That means these are all tall tales. If they had met him, why would they come to him and not take it from him? He said clearly. He mentioned that he keeps track of four or five "Babajis." Shyama Charan Lahiri Mahasaya, in that secret diary where he gave descriptions, spoke of Kabir Saheb. He said Kabir Saheb was Satya Sukrit in Satya Yuga, Munindra in Treta Yuga, Karunamaya in Dvapara Yuga, and Kabir in Kali Yuga.
Shyama Khapa:
Then he says, "Who is Kabir, that same am I, Shyama Charan." So, he was Kabir in a previous life. He says, "Who is Kabir, that same am I, Shyama Charan." What do we find in Kabir's life? Kabir was also a householder. He also said, "Is your Allah so deaf that you have to scream 'Allah, Allah'?" Rubbing the beads, calluses formed on the hands. So, Kabir also did not believe in this dualism. What does Kabir say? Kabir says, "The world dies and dies again, but no one knows how to die truly. No one has died such a death that they never have to die again. Death is of two kinds, but no one knows how to die. He who dies at the door of Ram, does not have to die again."
Shyama Khapa:
"The world dies and dies again"—people are born and die repeatedly. "No one knows how to die"—no one knows the true way to die. "No one has died such a death"—no one has died in a way "that they never have to die again," meaning they don't have to be born again. If you're born, you must die. So, birth and death must be stopped. If birth can be stopped, there will be no death. "No one has died such a death that they never have to die again." What is the answer? "He who dies at the door of Ram, does not have to die again." So, where is the door of Ram? In some established Ram temple? Certainly not. If I die in an established Ram temple, will I not be born again? Who says I won't?
Shyama Khapa:
Ram means Atmaram (the Self). Prana Krishna Atmaram, that Atmaram. One must embrace death there. Like what is said about Jagannath Dev: "Seeing the Vamana on the chariot, there is no rebirth." Chariot doesn't mean that physical chariot; many people see Jagannath on that chariot. Are they not being reborn? Surely they are. Then how are so many people being born? Where do all these souls come from? Surely they are being born. Chariot means this body, the chariot of the physical form. If someone can see the thumb-sized Purusha, the Vamana Dev, in this Kutastha—meaning if someone can see themselves—only then is there liberation. Kabir says the same regarding "seeing the Vamana on the chariot."
Shyama Khapa:
That door of Ram means that kind of established Ram. Today, there's such a fuss over Ram and his kingdom. All this noise. Dear, Ram is Atmaram. And where is Ram born? Ayodhya. Meaning where there is no war (A-yodhya). The place where the state of war ends is where Ram is born. That Ayodhya is within this body. That's where this Ram Atmaram is established. Once you reach that place, you don't have to fight anymore. And what temple or mosque will you build there? Atmaram is already sitting there in Ayodhya. That Ayodhya is just a symbol. We see this Triveni, we see this Gangasagar—these are all just symbols.
Shyama Khapa:
Every pilgrimage site we see is a symbol. What does our Jnanasankalini Tantra say? "All knowledge is in the body, all pilgrimage sites are in the body, all gods are in the body." So how can they be found? "They are attained through the Guru's words." And how do you find the Guru? The Gita says to find the Guru: "By humble reverence, by inquiry, and by service." Prostration doesn't just mean bowing or saluting. Submit yourself completely at the Guru's feet from your mind and inner world; then he will bless you with words. And those Guru's words are Vedic words, great words; by following them, you will find everything within this body—all gods, all pilgrimages. All these temples, mosques, churches, or pilgrimage sites in the outer world are just external symbols of that.
Shyama Khapa:
Meaning your body is an entire world. Everything is there; nothing is left out. "Whatever is in the microcosm is in the macrocosm." Exactly. The sages of old found similarities in the outer world for what they attained through practice and named those pilgrimage sites. Why? Because if someone comes there one day and seeks their inner world, and learns about spiritual practice, they can explain the significance of that pilgrimage site. Lahiri Baba said, "Kashi is Trishulpuri." Trishul means Ida, Pingala, and Sushumna; Kashi is above these three. It's said that earthquakes don't happen in Kashi. Which Kashi?
Shyama Khapa:
If an earthquake happens on Earth, will Kashi be spared? It won't be spared; it will surely happen. This is Kashi, the Trishulpuri, the Kutastha. This will never waver; an earthquake never occurs here. This is Shiva Vishwanath, he is Baidyanath, he is Taraknath, he is everything. Therefore, one must dedicate oneself to his practice. So, what did Lahiri Baba do then? He practiced. Interestingly, he didn't quit his job. He worked and practiced in due time. Even though he earned a lot of money back then, it wasn't enough. So what did he do? He used to give private tuitions.
Shyama Khapa:
He taught Urdu and Hindi to Europeans, English to some, and tutored Bengalis. Through tutoring, he even went to the Ramnagar palace to teach the king's son. He did many things and even rented out houses. He wrote yogic commentaries on 26 scriptures—later another was discovered and published, so 27 in total. He knew many Ayurvedic medicines; he made them and distributed them to devotees, charging for them. So, he earned money in all these ways. Then what happened to all that money? For someone who said he didn't need anything. Truly, he didn't need money; he used to give a lot in service and charity, which people didn't know about because it was done secretly.
Shyama Khapa:
But his main message wasn't that one must do service and charity. The main point was to practice Kriya Yoga. And if one finds time—as my Guru said—the main thing is to do Kriya Yoga, and if you have time, spread the message of Lahiri Baba, who is God himself. My Guru spent his whole life spreading his message. Later, he told his disciples to keep spreading Lahiri Baba's message because he is Brahman himself, God himself. Now, there's a story about taking his picture. What is he? He is Brahman himself. Regarding his picture, a devotee photographer once said, "Father, I want to take a picture of you."
Shyama Khapa:
He said, "Alright, you take it." "Father, please pose." He said, "I've posed, take it." While taking it, he saw everything was fine, but there was no image of him. "Father, your picture isn't coming out." He said, "Take it again properly." He took it again, but still no image. Then he cried, "Father, please grace me, only then will your picture come out." Then he gracefully allowed this picture, and only one photo was taken. Later, many printouts were made from that one photo. Remember, today's Ram is Krishna, who is Shyama Charan. Kabir said so.
Shyama Khapa:
There are no photos of Ram; the ones we have are paintings. Krishna's are paintings. So, his is the only original photo available. A female devotee once asked him for a photo: "Father, will you give me a photo?" He gave the photo and said, "If you think of it as just a photo, it's just a photo. But if you think of it as a protective shield, then it's that." So, this is everyone's protective shield. He allowed the picture to be taken as a protective shield. Anyway, he was practicing. One day his wife saw at night—the interesting thing is they slept in the same room on separate beds for many years, without any awareness or news.