INTERVIEWER:
Gurudev, my salutations to you. First of all, let me ask, how is your health now, Gurudev?
GURUDEV:
Salutations, my son. Salutations. I am being treated by a doctor and have been given medicine. I’ve already had ten injections. My health is much better than before, but the issue is that I cannot afford to catch a cold. Since I’ve just recovered from pneumonia, the doctor has strictly forbidden me from being in the cold. That is why I am not going to the prayer room. Once the cold subsides, I will go. I have to follow the doctor’s advice. Yes, tell me.
INTERVIEWER:
I wanted to ask you about something today—I don’t have much knowledge about this subject. It is regarding Moksha. What exactly is Moksha? I would like to know more about it.
GURUDEV:
Listen, regarding Moksha... you see, whether you are performing Kali Puja or Durga Puja, or any major ritual, you have to acknowledge four goals or vargas. We have four vargas: Dharma (Righteousness), Artha (Wealth), Moksha (Liberation), and Kama (Desire). Moksha is one of them. Now, there is much to think about regarding Moksha. People understand Dharma and Artha, and they certainly understand Kama, but people don't quite grasp Moksha. Ordinary people don't usually contemplate Moksha; it is the sages and monks (Sadhu-Sants) who think about it.
INTERVIEWER:
True, we don't have a complete understanding of it. We just say the words "Dharma, Artha, Moksha, Kama" because we've heard them.
GURUDEV:
Moksha is nothing other than the moment the soul (Atma) leaves the human body at the time of death and merges with the Supreme Soul (Paramatma)—the Creator. When it dissolves into Him, that is called Moksha. In this state, there is no more cycle of birth or death. One will not be born again, and one will not die again. That is the stage of Moksha.
GURUDEV:
Along with this, a person has many karmas (actions/duties). One must perform these as Nishkam Karma (selfless action). When these duties are completed and a person has no more karma left, that is when they think of Moksha. They feel, "There is no point in staying on Earth anymore because all my work is finished."
INTERVIEWER:
So, in one word, can we say Moksha is the union of the soul with the Supreme Soul?
GURUDEV:
Exactly. That is Moksha. You will see this if you go to major temples or the Kumbh Mela. Many sages come there—it’s hard to tell where they all come from. These sages are divided into many groups, like the Dashnami Sampradaya or the Naga Sadhus. The Nagas always bathe first, followed by others; sometimes it even leads to conflict. But these sages are the ones who truly contemplate Moksha. They say, "I want Moksha. I don't want to return to this Earth; my work here is done." They pray to their Ishta-Devata (tutelary deity), asking to be taken into the Supreme Soul.
GURUDEV:
In our four vargas, this is the greatest thing, though many people don't give it much importance. The process is quite rigorous because you have to become truly selfless and free of worldly duties. We are born with certain karmas to fulfill; we don't come empty-handed. Once those actions are performed, we leave. Interestingly, groups like the Buddhists or Jains talk more about Mukti (freedom/liberation).
INTERVIEWER:
So, is there a difference between Moksha and Mukti?
GURUDEV:
There is a vast difference between the two. Mukti also requires a vision of the Divine, but the words are used differently. For an ordinary person, "Mukti" sounds like freeing a caged bird or releasing a tiger from a zoo into the forest. Precisely. But Moksha is a much deeper concept that sages meditate upon. They realize that their journey of birth, staying in the womb for ten months, and dying is a cycle they wish to end. They complete their karma and tell their deity, "I have finished my work; now take me to your feet." This is how the soul merges with the Supreme. Once the Supreme Soul accepts them, He does not let them be born again.
INTERVIEWER:
Are there specific steps to attaining this?
GURUDEV:
Yes, there are certain auspicious days. For instance, we highly value Shukla Ekadashi, as mentioned in the Gita. If a Moksha yoga occurs on a day like Mauni Ekadashi and someone takes Ichcha-Mrityu (death at will)... I was just thinking of that as you mentioned "death at will." Yes, when someone feels their work is done and they no longer wish to stay. For example, Nam Baba—he passed away on such a day. He had predicted, "I will die in the evening." He chose that time because, at that moment, the soul would not bear any "dosha" (fault/taint). It was amazing. He said, "I am not truly dying; my pure soul will live on and bless everyone." He chose a very auspicious day, a Moksha Ekadashi.
GURUDEV:
My wife (Guruma) was the same. As she was passing, she was counting her kar (praying on her fingertips). I don't know what she was counting, but she was focused. Another thing is mentioned in the Jagannath Bhagavat: it says that if someone sees Lord Jagannath while He is seated on the Chariot (Ratha), they will not be reborn. "Punarjanma na vidyate" (Rebirth shall not happen). This is essentially Moksha—the end of the cycle because the Lord finishes their karma.
INTERVIEWER:
Gurudev, I have a question about that. When Lord Jagannath is on the chariot during Ratha Yatra, millions of people gather to see Him. Does that mean everyone who sees Him attains Moksha? Because surely, their karma isn't all finished in the same way. What about those who commit sins or bad deeds but still go to see the Lord on the chariot? Do they get Moksha too?
GURUDEV:
No, it doesn't work like that. It is for those who have reached that stage of completion. As I saw with Guruma, she saw the Lord on the chariot and had a deep connection. But for the average person, they are still bound by their actions. So, these are the four goals: Dharma, Artha, Moksha, Kama. We ask God for all of them. But Moksha is the most profound because it means saying, "I will not return to this cycle of birth and death."
GURUDEV:
Many people come to me and say, "Gurudev, give me Mukti," because they don't know the word Moksha. Mukti just means "I was bound to you, now you've let me go." Like the bird in the cage you mentioned. Moksha is different.
INTERVIEWER:
This was a short discussion, but very deep. I didn't know much about this, and many people confuse Moksha and Mukti. They are indeed two different things. It was wonderful talking to you, Gurudev. Please take care and stay out of the cold. Gurudev, my salutations.
GURUDEV:
Yes, I will. May you all stay healthy and well. Salutations, my son. Salutations.