Disciple:
Pronam, Gurudeb.
Gurudeb:
Pronam.
Disciple:
Gurudeb, I want to know about something today. I've heard that those who practice Tantra and are true practitioners...
Gurudeb:
Yes, true practitioners.
Disciple:
Especially their wives...
Gurudeb:
Those who are their spiritual partners.
Disciple:
Yes, spiritual partners. It's said that the wives of such Tantric practitioners never become widows; they remain married forever. How true is this?
Gurudeb:
If you go to Tarapith, this is an order from Bamdeb Baba. Those who practice Tantra, their spiritual partners will never become widows; they will always remain married. Even if their Bhairav (husband) dies, the Bhairavi (wife) will not remove her shakha (conch bangles) or sindoor (vermilion). They will continue to wear them and dress in red-bordered sarees. They will never be considered widows. This is Bamdeb Baba's order.
Gurudeb:
It is an order, and even if you go to Tarapith today, you will find people who follow this. For instance, Gouri Ma is there. She has been there for a very long time. You'll see that she has outlived four or five husbands. Two or three of them died, but she still wears her bangles and vermilion. She hasn't given them up. So, this is Bamdeb Baba's directive: those who practice pure Tantra, their partners will never become widows. They always remain married. He said that under no circumstances should you give up your bangles and vermilion or stop wearing red clothes. That's one part of it.
Gurudeb:
Modern society doesn't accept this. Society says, "If your husband dies, you are a widow. You must wear white, give up vermilion, and give up the bangles." These things must be discarded or broken, and you must live that way. This was Bamdeb Baba's instruction.
Disciple:
No, but you said what happens now...
Gurudeb:
No, not just now. It was Bamdeb Baba's instruction, but later this is what happened, what happens in society. Society dictates that if the husband is dead, she is a widow. She cannot wear vermilion, alta (red dye), bangles, and so on. If someone does, they become a social outcast. Right?
Gurudeb:
If you read books on Tantra, you'll find that for those whose husbands practiced pure Tantra—true practitioners—the practitioners themselves tell them not to give up these symbols. Recently, there was a controversy when Mother Sarada was dressed in a red cloth. People started criticizing, saying, "A widow shouldn't wear red," and so on. Different people say different things. But they don't know the truth. Those who are ignorant criticize the most. Those who know don't criticize. The ignorant ones don't care about books or Bamdeb Baba's teachings. They say Bamdeb Baba was crazy and dismiss these things as nonsense. I have seen this myself and have always seen it. When I was in Tarapith, I asked a few people about this. They said, "No, we have an order that those whose husbands practice pure Tantra, they are told by their husbands not to give up their bangles and vermilion. They should wear them for life." People don't want to accept this because they don't know.
Gurudeb:
I'll tell you a story from Tarapith that many might not know. Bamdeb Baba had a female disciple whom he initiated. Her husband was a great practitioner. Just as Ramakrishna told Mother Sarada about the bangles—no matter what happens, she must keep wearing them. And Mother wore them all her life as per Ramakrishna's words. He said, "Do not give up the bangles." Suddenly, her husband died—the husband of that disciple. She went to Bamdeb Baba and asked, "Baba, what should I do? My husband has died." He said, "There's nothing to do. Stay as you are. Wear vermilion and alta, and don't remove your bangles. Stay as you are." Since her Guru said so, she followed it strictly. Suddenly, trouble started at her home. People from the neighborhood came and asked, "You're a widow, why are you wearing these? Take them off. Remove the bangles and vermilion. You cannot wear these. Your husband is dead." She replied, "Look, I went to my Guru, Bamdeb Baba of Tarapith—you know him. He told me to keep wearing these and not to give them up. So I am wearing them according to my Guru's words." They said, "Who is this Guru? Who is Bamdeb?" as I was saying earlier. They didn't want to hear anything. They told her, "Wear white, bathe as a widow, and remove the vermilion and bangles. Otherwise, we won't let you live in this society." Plain and simple.
Gurudeb:
She was in a terrible fix, but since her Guru had told her, she didn't give them up. Then the local people came and shaved the lady's head. They shaved her head and broke her bangles and wiped off the vermilion. They took her to a pond, broke everything, made her a complete widow, and said, "From today, you will live like this, as a widow." And so it was; she started living like that in society. Word eventually reached Bamdeb Baba's ears. Bamdeb Baba was furious. "Who has such audacity?" He took his disciples and went to that village, to that lady's house. He asked his disciple, "Who did this to you?" She said, "Baba, I was following your words, but some people from the neighborhood came, took me to the pond by force, and cut off my hair. You can see my condition." He asked, "Which pond? Show me where they took you." Following Bamdeb Baba's words, she showed him the place in the pond where they broke her bangles and threw her hair. Bamdeb Baba was extremely angry. Those who were there were the ones who had done it. Bamdeb Baba said, "Come before me, whoever did this." No one dared to come forward. After all, many had heard of Bamdeb Baba of Tarapith; he wasn't someone to be trifled with. So, no one came forward. Then he said to the girl, "My child, do one thing. Go into the water where they broke your bangles and threw your hair, and take a dip." As instructed by Baba, she took a dip. When she came out, she was wearing her bangles, vermilion, red clothes, and alta, and her hair had grown back just as it was before. "Come out, come out," he said.
Gurudeb:
Everyone was astonished. It's a natural reaction. He asked, "Who among you is here? Come to me. You did this to this girl; it wasn't right." One man came forward and said, "Baba, we didn't understand, so we did what our society dictates." He said, "She will stay in this land, and as long as she lives, she will stay like this. You shall not lay a hand on her. Understand? And if you do, great misfortune awaits you." After saying this, he told the girl, "Stay here. I am going back to Tarapith. If anyone troubles you, let me know. Send word through someone, and I will return." Because of this, no one ever touched her again, and she lived like that for the rest of her life. This is a significant aspect of Tantra practice. Those who practice Tantra tell their wives, "Do not give up vermilion, alta, bangles, or anything. Stay as you are." This is one side of Tantra practice.
Disciple:
Not just any Tantra practice, but those who are true practitioners.
Gurudeb:
Yes, such practitioners. Not just someone who wears red and does some gimmicks. A real, original practitioner can be recognized, and their fame spreads throughout the world. In such cases, their wives are told not to give up alta and vermilion and to dress as married women. "You will never become widows." If you ever go to Tarapith and find knowledgeable people, they will tell you this story. This story is widely known among them. Even today, you'll see wives who don't give up alta and vermilion after their husbands die.
Disciple:
Anyway, that was a beautiful story—a true story, though it sounds like a legend.
Gurudeb:
Yes, absolutely true. Even if it sounds like a story, it's true. I told you the absolute truth. It's a universal truth; there's no secret in it.
Disciple:
I hope Gurudeb will occasionally share such beautiful true stories. We will listen and be enriched, as will you.
Gurudeb:
Certainly. There's another thing I know about Ramakrishna's wife, Mother Sarada. Mother Sarada was initiated at a very young age. She was initiated by Swami Purnananda, whom Ramakrishna used to call "Pune" like a friend.
Disciple:
Oh, I see.
Gurudeb:
He called him "Pune," but his real name was Swami Purnananda.
Gurudeb:
When he (Swami Purnananda) would lie down after a meal, a gentleman who was penniless used to come and massage Baba's (Ramakrishna's) feet. One day, while massaging his feet, he asked Baba, "Baba, will you initiate me?" Ramakrishna jumped up and said, "What did you say? I'm your Guru? I should initiate you? Your Guru is Pune; go to him. Your Guru is Pune." He said "Pune," but the man didn't understand. He thought, "Isn't Ramakrishna my Guru? Is my Guru Pune?" He knew the name "Pune" but didn't know it meant Purnananda. He didn't understand correctly. Anyway, he started looking for his Guru. He felt a strong need for initiation. Since he was penniless, he used to search for him at various riverbanks. In those days, there were many ghats (riverbanks), like Kashimitro Ghat. He searched those places. Since Ramakrishna had said it, he was sure Pune must be somewhere. He sat at betel shops and tea stalls and asked everyone, "Is there someone named Pune here?" No one could tell him. "We haven't even heard the name," they would say.
Gurudeb:
His name was Shubodh Mukhopadhyay. Shubodh Mukhopadhyay searched all the shops and the entire area but couldn't find him. He thought, "Did Ramakrishna tell me something false?" But then he thought, "No, Ramakrishna isn't someone who tells lies. If he said so, he must be somewhere." He started searching again and became exhausted. One day, he was sitting at Kashimitro Ghat, feeling dejected, without a single penny in his pocket. At that time, some women from a brothel came to bathe. Shubodh Mukhopadhyay was sitting there, looking away, while everyone was bathing. No one noticed him. Among them was an elderly woman who had been watching Shubodh Mukhopadhyay for a while. After bathing, she came up to him. "Who are you?" In those days, people used to talk. "Who are you?" He replied, "I am Shubodh Mukhopadhyay." "Why are you sitting here so dejectedly? What's wrong?" He said, "I'm looking for someone. I've become desperate searching for him. Ramakrishna told me he is my Guru." "What's his name?" "Ramakrishna said 'Pune'." Then the lady said, "Oh, he meant Swami Purnananda. He's right. He meant Swami Purnananda. I know him."
Disciple:
He asked, "You know him?"
Gurudeb:
She said, "Yes, I do. Come with me, and I'll introduce you to him." Anyway, she finished bathing and gave him a place to sit. In a brothel, there's always laughter and noise. "A new gentleman has come, a penniless gentleman with not a penny in his pocket." The lady said, "Sit here. I'll finish my bath and take food for Baba." Before eating, Baba wanted liquor. If he didn't get it, he would say, "My throat is becoming parched; give me liquor." So those women would arrange liquor for Baba with their own money and give him food. Anyway, she said, "Sit, I'll take you there." After a while, she changed her clothes and went to Swami Purnananda's room. Swami Purnananda was shouting from inside, "Hey, give me liquor! My throat is parching!" The women gave him the bottle, and he drank. But he noticed Shubodh Mukhopadhyay. He didn't say anything on the first day, not a single word; he just kept watching him. He ate and drank while watching him. Shubodh thought, "Oh my, where have I come?" After two or three days like this, the lady said, "Wait a bit; he will surely accept you." Anyway, as per her words, he went and sat near him. After three or four days, he asked, "Who is it? Shubodh? How did you know my name is Shubodh Mukhopadhyay?" But he hadn't told anyone. He had only told one woman. "Shubodh, why have you come? Did Godai send you?" Godai means Ramakrishna. "Did Godai send you? Sit down. I am not your Guru. Your Guru is Bamdeb Baba in Tarapith. How can I be your Guru?"
Gurudeb:
He said, "Bamdeb Baba in Tarapith." But he had no money in his pocket; how would he go? He felt dejected and started walking down. The woman followed him. She asked, "Aren't you going to get initiated?" He said, "I have no money. How will I go to Tarapith? It's very far from here. How will I go?" Then she said, "I'll arrange the money for you. Will you go?" He said, "No, I won't go to get initiated with money from a prostitute. You'll earn money through your profession and give it to me? I won't go for initiation with that money." She said, "Listen to me. I have these two gold earrings. They were given to me by my mother; there's no taint in them. I'll sell these and give you the money; you can take it." He was still not ready to take it. She didn't give up and took him to a jewelry shop. She took the earrings off her ears and sold them. She gave him the money she got from the sale. "Go to Tarapith; you have a great need for initiation. Since Godai said 'Pune,' you need to go." Finally, he couldn't refuse. He went to Tarapith.
Gurudeb:
There he saw Bamdeb Baba dipping an apple in water and eating it bit by bit. As soon as Shubodh Mukhopadhyay arrived, he said, "Is that you, Shubodh? Come here, come." He offered him the fruit he had been eating. "Eat, eat, eat. You must be hungry, eat." Shubodh Mukhopadhyay didn't eat it out of disgust. "Oh, so you won't eat? You won't eat my leftovers?" he said. Shubodh made some excuses. He said, "Okay, go to Mother's room, clean it, sweep it. Come to me in the evening, and I'll initiate you." He came in the evening. Baba was still eating fruits. Again, he offered a leftover fruit. He didn't eat it out of disgust. "You won't eat? Since you didn't eat, stay with Mother today; you can leave tomorrow. Stay with Mother tonight; there's no train today, so leave tomorrow morning." He sent him to Mother's room. In the morning, Bamdeb Baba went for his morning routines and a bath. He went to bathe in the Dwaroka River. At that time, Godai (Bamdeb's disciple) was cutting wood. As soon as he arrived, Godai said, "Come in, sir, sit down." He said, "Don't ask me to sit. Godai sent me to Pune, who turned out to be a drunkard, and here I see another drunkard. Look at my luck, from whom am I to receive initiation?" Bamdeb Baba was coming from the road and overheard this. He grabbed him by the hair and said, "Do you know Pune?"
Gurudeb:
"He is a realized soul, a soul realized from birth. He drinks now because he wanted to drink in his previous life but couldn't. He thought he would drink a little but couldn't. So he's fulfilling that in this life. God gives humans what they desire, if not in one life, then in the next. So he is not a drunkard." After saying this, he said, "He is not even a Guru, and I am also a drunkard." This hit him hard. He grabbed him by the hair and pulled him, saying, "Go, leave right now! Go to the banks of the Ganges and establish Mother there. You will find Mother there." He told him to leave that very day and never come back to Tarapith. And so he left and established a temple there. You'll see the temple is still there. Shubodh Mukhopadhyay established the Tara Ma temple. Then he had a vision of Mother; he actually saw Mother. What Bamdeb Baba had said came true.
Gurudeb:
Now, regarding this matter, when I said that Swami Purnananda was Mother Sarada's Guru, many people criticized me. One person from the Ramakrishna Mission saved me. He said, "No, he is right." People told me to take down that post. They don't know anything. They said, "Take it down, he's telling lies." Finally, he saved me and said, "No need to take it down; what he said is true. Swami Purnananda had initiated her when she was a child." So, that's it. Ramakrishna was initiated much later by Tota Puri. Much later. But Mother Sarada's initiation happened long before that, in her childhood. Swami Purnananda had initiated her. So, I survived that ordeal.
Disciple:
This story is also good. Anyway, I've heard both stories, and both are very beautiful.
Disciple:
I hope Gurudeb will share more such stories in the future, or I'll be able to bring them to you in another episode.
Gurudeb:
Both the stories I told are true events.
Disciple:
Yes, true events. As we understand—when a house lizard chirps, we say "true, true, true." While you were telling the stories, the house lizard was chirping continuously. Hearing that, I felt it was true. Anyway, I won't make the video any longer; it's already quite long.
Gurudeb:
Okay.
Disciple:
May everyone stay healthy and well. Gurudeb, pronam.
Gurudeb:
Pronam, son, pronam, pronam, pronam.