Disciple:
Pranam, Gurudev.
Gurudev:
Pranam, pranam.
Disciple:
Gurudev, when someone begins their spiritual practice (sadhana) or takes their first steps on the spiritual path, their primary goal is to become free from the "six vices" (Shoro Ripu). If someone were to truly become free from these vices, they wouldn't feel any pull or attachment toward anything, right? Similarly, people from all corners of the world call out to God today. Is God truly free from these vices? If God is free from them, why would He feel the need or obligation to respond to anyone's call or listen to them? What is your take on this? Is God free from these vices?
Gurudev:
Look, no one is entirely free from these vices. There is a profound story about this that many might not know. Who created these vices? God, or rather the Creator, Brahma, created them. He created the six vices: Lust (Kama), Anger (Krodha), Greed (Lobha), Delusion/Attachment (Moha), Pride (Mada), and Envy/Malice (Matsarya).
Gurudev:
He created these six vices even before humans were created. Once created, the vices found themselves with no one to influence. They wanted to exert their power and "ruin" someone—not exactly ruin, but fulfill their purpose through research and influence. They went to Brahma and said, "Why did you create us? Who should we act upon? We cannot influence animals."
Gurudev:
Brahma replied, "Fine, I am creating a race upon whom you can exert your influence—the human race." He created humans and told the vices, "Go, influence them." And so it happened; whoever they influenced became subject to those vices. That is the story in short.
Gurudev:
Vices never truly die. No one can completely get rid of them. In one way or another, these vices will always surround you. You might say, "I have renounced my vices," but the vices will not renounce you. This is because you have been given a physical body that contains lust, anger, greed, attachment, pride, and envy. All six vices reside within the human body. One might suppress lust, but the other five will remain. This is the law of the vices. No one is free from them. If God were entirely free from them, no one would call out to Him. God exists within these vices too; He plays with them. He places them within humans and watches the play unfold. He enjoys seeing how the vices "play" their part.
Disciple:
Exactly. Otherwise, why would God even come to a devotee? If He were completely free from all vices, it wouldn't matter to Him who calls or why.
Gurudev:
A person cannot survive without these vices. They wouldn't be able to eat or function.
Disciple:
And Gurudev, from the moment we wake up until we go to sleep, everything we do is linked to these six things in some way. Without them, the world would come to a standstill.
Gurudev:
That is why I say these six vices will remain. Even if you leave them, they won't leave you. The poet Ram Prasad used to say, "Mother, there are six vices within this body; how do I manage them? I wish to kill them all with poison." But they don't want to leave. Even if you want to let go, they stay.
Disciple:
But Gurudev, they say greed is one of the greatest sins. Many crimes are committed under the influence of greed and anger. It is said that when God appears to a seeker, they must keep these vices within a certain limit, or else God will leave them. Is the purpose of Japa (chanting) and meditation to control these?
Gurudev:
Yes, the purpose of Japa and spiritual practice is to control them. When you talk about "opening the chakras," it is actually a method of gaining control over these. But that doesn't mean a saint becomes completely devoid of them. Even a saint has these six qualities, these six vices. It’s just a matter of when they manifest. Spiritual practice is the process of bringing them under control.
Disciple:
Is there any example of even the Gods being influenced by these?
Gurudev:
Consider the story of Lord Narayan and Tulsi. Narayan loved Tulsi deeply, but one day, driven by desire (Lobha/Kama), he deceived her. When Tulsi found out, she cursed him. Despite his divinity, he was influenced by that desire. So, who is truly free? Neither humans nor gods are entirely free from these vices.
Disciple:
Otherwise, stories like the Churning of the Ocean wouldn't make sense. If they were free of vices, they wouldn't have the desire for immortality.
Gurudev:
Exactly.
Disciple:
So, as we discussed, even God is not free from these. How can we, as humans, control them?
Gurudev:
It is nearly impossible to fully control them. Even someone like Ram Prasad couldn't fully control them. He used to say that whenever he tried to focus on his spiritual practice, these vices would distract him. They would "bite" at his concentration. He wasn't talking about himself alone; he was speaking on behalf of humanity.
Disciple:
So, the current increase in the intensity of these vices in the world—is that an indication of something?
Gurudev:
When something increases beyond a limit, it leads to destruction. It has to peak before it resets. These vices are stubborn. You cannot simply say, "I am done with lust." Lust will still cling to you. The same goes for anger and greed. However, through prayer and spiritual practice, God provides a way to mitigate or dampen their effects. Anyway, you have heard the discussion. You will hear more such discussions in the coming episodes. Stay healthy, stay well.
Disciple:
Pranam, Gurudev.
Gurudev:
Pranam.