DISCIPLE:
Gurudeb, my respects to you.
GURUDEB:
Blessings.
DISCIPLE:
Gurudeb, Chandan Babu has come again today. He is performing the Narmada Parikrama (circumambulation). You mentioned that you have spoken with him before. If you could discuss the remaining part with us today.
GURUDEB:
Yes, there is a bit more to discuss. If you could join us, it would be good. I'll come, Gurudeb, and we can discuss. It's nothing else, I'm just asking himâhe mentioned that if one can cross two specific districts, there are no more difficulties. What are those two districts?
CHANDAN:
On the southern bank, they are Dindori and Mandla. You have to cross them by walking over stones. Itâs quite tough if you follow the riverbank. If you go by road, you wonât encounter this, but along the mother riverâs bank, those two districts are entirely covered in rocks. You have to climb and move like Spider-Man to cross. Thereâs a bit of risk on the southern bank. And on the northern bank, there is Shulpani Jhar, where the Bhils (tribal group) once took everything from Arjuna. So, those two districts on the southern side and the Shulpani Jhar forest on the northern side are the most dangerous. Crossing them is the real test from the Mother. Once crossed, there are no more obstacles.
GURUDEB:
Youâve already bought your ticket. Where will you get off?
CHANDAN:
I will get off at Khandwa station. I'll take the Bombay Mail to Khandwa. There is the Dadaji Dhuniwale Ashram there where people can stay for 24 hours without any issue. Food, restâeverything is available. You can bathe, freshen up, and the next day there is a bus stand nearby. From there, you take a bus to a place called Omkareshwar.
GURUDEB:
You have to go to Omkareshwar from Indore, right?
CHANDAN:
From Indore, youâd have to circle back along the northern bank. Since I have completed the southern bank and haven't done the northern one yet, I have to enter through Khandwa to reach Omkareshwar on the southern bank. From there, I will complete the rest.
GURUDEB:
I heard about the rules there. I heard that those who urinate cannot do it while standing?
CHANDAN:
No, no. If you urinate while standing there, they say you are urinating like an animal. You must sit down. As you know, this is also a rule in Hindu Shastrasâto sit and perhaps even place the sacred thread over the ear for Brahmins. The rules are the same, but whether people follow them or know the etiquette is a different matter.
GURUDEB:
But itâs not done there, right?
CHANDAN:
Oh no, if you do it standing there, they will get very angry and speak harshly to you. It feels bad to hear. They speak their mind if they see something offensive. Otherwise, they donât mind whatever else you do. But there are certain terms in the ashram. For example, going to the bathroom is called "Dol Daal." Urinating is called "Laghu Shanka." If you need salt for food, itâs called "Ram Ras." These are ashram terms. You have to use them for them to understand. When they serve food and your stomach is full, you say "Mahapuran." Once you say "Mahapuran," they won't come to you again. Thatâs the rule.
GURUDEB:
So, there are such linguistic customs there.
CHANDAN:
Their language is based on spiritual Vedic Shastras. They donât go beyond the Vedas.
GURUDEB:
The Vedas are the essence. I met a lady who was fasting for Santoshi Maa. I told her that one shouldn't eat sour things during the Friday fast. A holy man (Babaji) then asked me, "Who told you not to eat sour things? In which book is it written?" He said, "You worship Santoshi Maa, but did she tell you not to eat sour things? This is just something someone experienced through meditation, but there is no mention of Santoshi Maa in the Vedas." In the Vedas, only Mahasaraswati and Mahakali are mentioned. Nothing else.
CHANDAN:
They follow a very straight and authentic path. To recite the Vedas, one must light a fire (Dhuni). Without fire, Vedic chanting doesnât happen.
GURUDEB:
Thatâs right. They use any kind of wood for the Dhuni. The main thing is the fire. For us, we believe rituals can't happen without bael wood or bael leaves. But we can even use bamboo. I need the fire, not specifically the wood. Fire is "Jata-veda" (all-knowing).
CHANDAN:
I saw them bringing wood for the Dhuni.
GURUDEB:
Thatâs why it is said: "Vaishvanaro Jata-vedo ihavaha lohitakshah sarva-karmani sadhaya svaha." Fire performs all actions. Thatâs why fire must be lit.
CHANDAN:
Every ashram has a fire, a Dhuni. It's a must. Theyâve even built separate pavilions (Mandaps) for the Dhuni, with many small ritual fires where the Brahmins and seekers sit and perform their spiritual practices every morning and evening.
GURUDEB:
Do they allow outsiders to sit?
CHANDAN:
Outsiders can watch from a distance. They donât usually allow outsiders inside easily. Only their own people or members who work there or those serving the Maharaj are allowed near the Dhuni.
GURUDEB:
Is bael leaf available there?
CHANDAN:
Yes, it is, but I didn't see it used much. They use ghee and something like pulsesâmoong or arhar dal. They call it "Karai Dal" or something. They mix it with incense powder and offer it to the Dhuni. Itâs not like it is here; itâs completely different. If they donât find anything else, they even use dried cow dung cakes (ghute). They arrange large dung cakes beautifully to light the Dhuni.
GURUDEB:
If you go to Kedarnath, the Dhuni is lit with cow dung there too. They consider it very sacred. They sit in the middle of these fires. This helps keep the cold away and also prevents wild animals from coming near. Iâve seen many Sadhus in Kedarnath doing this.
DISCIPLE:
Seeing the fire probably keeps animals away; thatâs likely one reason.
CHANDAN:
Also, where they go, itâs very cold. Fire is essential for them. Itâs the strength of their penance. While they chant, sitting by the fire helps them adjust to the heat of nature, even in winter. They wander in the open without blankets, just smearing the ash from the Dhuni all over their bodies.
GURUDEB:
The ash forms a coating. When you apply it to the body, you donât feel the cold.
CHANDAN:
Thatâs their spiritual power. Those who wear only a loincloth or stay naked smear it the most. They have symbols too. You can tell by their markings if they are devotees of Ram, Kali, or Shiva. Their appearance tells you which tradition or deity they follow. Itâs their main "make-up." In the morning, they apply tilaks made of sandalwood. For Shiva, itâs a long sandalwood mark; for the Mother, itâs red vermilion or kumkum; for Ram, itâs a 'U' shape. I asked a Babaji how he knew someone was a devotee of Sita-Ram. He said, "We just know." If someone follows Shiva, they greet them with "Narmade Har."
GURUDEB:
They live very simply and their connection is directly with the Mother. They donât like talking about worldly affairs.
CHANDAN:
Not at all. They stay within themselves, focused on their deities. They donât care about whatâs happening elsewhere. They speak very little and stay in meditation. Some observe silence (Mauna) from morning until 10 PM. But they are very good people. The local people are also very well-behaved. They are very poor, but they donât let you feel it. Their sense of service (Seva) is immense.
GURUDEB:
Service is their religion. They believe that serving those who come to seek God is their duty. That is their worship. They donât have conflicts with neighbors like we do. They all come together. Once, we were passing through a village and needed water. Even before we asked, they brought us water and even offered to carry our containers. Such great service.
DISCIPLE:
How long does this circumambulation take?
CHANDAN:
If you take a vow (Sankalpa), itâs 3 years, 3 months, and 13 days. But if you donât take a formal vow, you can start from Amarkantak or Omkareshwar with a container of water, wearing the traditional dressâa staff in hand, dhoti, panjabi, and carrying essentials like medicineâand start walking. You should aim to finish in about 184 days. This is because Markandeya Muni completed it in 184 days and then found a place for penance. Mother Narmada herself told him, "Why can't you find a place? I have made a place for you." About 6 kilometers inside from the Narmada, there is a river called Dev Nadi. There, in a cave, he performed his penance. It still exists. From a distance, it looks like you'll hit your head and itâs scary, but as you go closer, thereâs an ancient Shiva temple inside with a natural waterfall. There are Vedic verses carved into the stones. We canât read them, but they are covered in flowers and vermilion now.
CHANDAN:
Markandeya Muni finished in 184 days, but thereâs no strict rule now that you must finish in that time. He did it when he could. Now, it depends on how you walk. Back then, the environment was differentâmore dangerous. If you can finish in 184 days, it gives you a sense of satisfaction that you achieved a target. Some people do it in four months. Some elderly people walk part of the way and take a vehicle where possible. But the rule is you shouldnât "cross" the Mother (cross the river). You have to follow the marks and arrows left by the forest officials and others to guide you through the forests.
GURUDEB:
So you are currently on the southern bank?
CHANDAN:
Yes, Iâm on the southern bank now. Then Iâll go to the northern bank. Iâll start from Omkareshwar and complete the rest. Now I am in the "Motherâs lap" (southern side), then I will go to the "Fatherâs side" (northern side) where many Rishis performed penance and where there are many great Shiva temples like Rinmukteshwar.
DISCIPLE:
Gurudeb, I want to ask Chandan Babu one question. Why did you suddenly feel like doing the Narmada Parikrama?
CHANDAN:
Gurudeb knows this. I didn't even know where the Narmada was. But ever since I started coming to Gurudeb, I heard him talk about Narmada. It sparked a desire in me. Then I searched on YouTube and found videos about the Parikrama. I took permission and blessings from Gurudeb before I left. I didn't do anything without telling him. I feel very blessed. I was never into these things before, but after coming to him, I learned so much. I realized I had made many mistakes in the past, but Gurudeb says time gives you everything. You can't expect fruit the day you plant a tree. You have to be patient. I tell everyone to have patience and faith in the Mother. She will clear your path. I was ignorant, but Gurudeb always said, "If you haven't seen Narmada, you haven't seen anything." And truly, in this dark age (Kali Yuga), the Mother is alive and present there. If anyone doesn't believe it, they should go there for just one month. We say, "Mother Narmada is always awake." I don't have the capacity to say much about her, but whatever I desired, she gave me. I am a devotee of Mother Kali, and as Gurudeb says, itâs the same Mother everywhereâNarmada, Sita, Radha, or Kali. I don't compare; Mother is Mother. I love the Mother more than anything.
DISCIPLE:
Thank you, Chandan Babu. Gurudeb, my respects.
GURUDEB:
Blessings. He told me he would come on Sunday and finish the discussion. Itâs good to know these things. Itâs amazing how the Mother resides there.
DISCIPLE:
My respects, Gurudeb.