Interviewer:
Pranam Gurudev.
Guru Shyama Khyapa:
Pranam Baba, Pranam. Bol. (Yes, speak.)
Interviewer:
Today, I want to discuss a different topic with you, which the audience will hear from you. Hopefully, they will like it. Gurudev's two disciples, Subhasish and Snehasish, live in Arambagh. They have taken over the temple on behalf of the Gurudev. They have written a letter to Gurudev. Since the letter is quite long, I won't read it, but I will express it in my words. It's an extraordinary letter they have written. And they have asked a few questions to Gurudev, wanting to know about some topics from him. So, I will present those topics one by one to Gurudev, and Gurudev will answer accordingly.
Guru Shyama Khyapa:
Yes, yes. Speak.
Interviewer:
The first thing they wrote is about Reincarnation (Punojanmobad), which is from the Gita. In this context, they write, Krishna says, "Arjuna, you and I have taken bodies many times."
Guru Shyama Khyapa:
"Born many times."
Interviewer:
"You don't remember any of it, but I remember everything." Can you explain this a bit?
Guru Shyama Khyapa:
When Arjuna laid down the Gandiva (bow) in the battlefield, Krishna got very angry. He said, "Look, one's own duty (Svadharma) is better... you are a Kshatriya (warrior). War is your duty. If you flee from the battlefield, the doors of hell are open for you." He explained a lot to Arjuna. Arjuna didn't want to understand. He just said one thing, "Why should I kill so many people? If so many people die, their wives will become widows, they will go to other men, etc." Krishna says, "Look, I have already killed them. You don't need to kill them. Just the blow of your arrow is enough." Even then, Arjuna couldn't believe it. Then he said to Arjuna, "Look Arjuna, you might not know how many times you have been born and how many times I have been born. You have been born as many times as I have. And not only that, you don't recognize me, but I recognize you. We have been born many times. You don't recognize me. This is according to the Gita. I remember everything. How many times I was born, how many times I met you, I remember it all. But you don't remember." This is what the Gita says. He remembers everything. He remembers all the past lives. But for Arjuna, it's not possible. That's why he had to say, "Look Arjuna, you were born many times, I was born many times. You don't recognize me, but I recognize you." This is the point. This is from the Gita.
Interviewer:
Next, they write, "Is Mahishasur a Manasur (Human Demon)?" This is based on the Chandi.
Guru Shyama Khyapa:
Based on Chandi, yes.
Interviewer:
In this regard, they write that people's greed and desires are increasing. Blind ego and arrogance are increasing. So, is man the demon? Or is man the god?
Guru Shyama Khyapa:
Man becomes a demon, and man becomes a god. A demon has a character. A man has a character. Now, it's not a big deal for a man to become a demon. When the battle between Mahishasur and Mother Durga was happening, the Mother struck many times. During the battle, he (Mahishasur) broke huge mountains with his horns and threw them at the Mother. The Mother was hurt. But at the end of the battle, he said to the Mother, "Mother, I am an ignorant child. I couldn't understand you. I didn't recognize you. Please forgive me. I have only one request: when you come to Earth, I want to be with you." The Mother said, "So be it." See, the Motherly nature, even after being hit so much, she forgave. But the son's request, "I am like your child, I did this without understanding. Forgive me, and when you come to Earth, let me receive worship along with you." This is continuing today. Mahishasur has to come and receive worship. This is from Mahishasur's mouth. It's true. Greed is increasing, ego and arrogance are increasing so much. These are demonic powers. Demonic powers have entered humans. That's why he is saying, "Does a demon become a god?" Yes, it happens. It happened to Valmiki. Valmiki became a god from a demon. So there's no reason why it can't happen. And there were many battles with Mahishasur. In the Chandi, it is said that many great demons and giants were Mahishasur's companions. They also fought with the Mother. The Mother defeated everyone. When she pierced Mahishasur with her trident, keeping her toe on his neck, Mahishasur kept saying to the Mother, "Mother, I am an ignorant child, I couldn't understand. Forgive me." Being a Mother, forgiveness is her nature. She said, "Okay, fine." He said, "I have one request: when you come to Earth, let me be with you." She accepted. "When I come to Earth, you will come." Yes, Mahishasur looks like a human. Like all humans. But his internal nature is demonic. His behavior and words are all demonic.
Interviewer:
Exactly. Now what they mean is, is Mahishasur now a human-shaped demon? This is what is seen now. People are like that.
Guru Shyama Khyapa:
That's what they said. Okay, tell me what else they want to say.
Interviewer:
After that, they write, "Is the body our final identity?" This is based on the Gita. They write, "We are a nameless, formless entity. The life force of Paramatma. Society gave us names. Parents gave us forms. But the life force that keeps us alive, no one can give that."
Guru Shyama Khyapa:
Many people come and tell me this. Look, you have given birth. You have created a lump of blood. Who gave the life? If you could give life, you wouldn't die. (Addressing a metaphorical father) I say to the father, "If you could give life, you wouldn't die." I say to the mother, "If you could give life, you wouldn't die." Where is this life force coming from? It's coming from above. You can bear the pain and bring a child into the womb. You have this much power. After that, whatever happens, others give the name. Others give your name. When you go for a job, you work for others. You earn money from others. Everything is not yours. Everything is given by others. You are enjoying what others have given. Whatever you see, you are enjoying things given by others. So, it's true. We have no identity of our own. We say "mine" (amar). Take away the "a" (I/ego), and it becomes "mother" (ma - in Bengali 'amar' without 'a' doesn't quite make 'ma' directly in spelling, but the spiritual context is that everything is Mother's. Actually, 'A-mar' - 'A' is ego, 'mar' or 'ma' is Mother. The pun is on "Amar" vs "Ma"). If you remove the "A" (ego), everything belongs to the Mother. "Mine" is an egoistic feeling. I did it, I ate it, I wore it, etc. This is ego. God doesn't stay where there is ego. So, leave everything in the Mother's name. Remove the "A", and everything is Mother's. Everything is given by others. Name is given by others. You have to do a job for others. Everything is others'. There's nothing called one's own.
Interviewer:
Now they have asked an extraordinary question. They write, "Is Bharat (India) the only destination for liberation?" This is based on the Gita. They say India is the spiritual center of the world. The word 'Bha' means knowledge, and 'rata' means engaged. Those who are always engaged in the practice of knowledge are Bharat. In the Gita, the Lord said, "Liberation is in knowledge." Now, those who live in India, in Bharat, they don't know this. They don't know the meaning of the word 'Bharat'. The word 'Bha' means knowledge, and 'rata' means engaged in it. India is the only country, the land of sages, where thousands of sages were born, and by whose grace India is running today. This is true. India is running by their grace, by their touch. There is only one path to liberation: one who has knowledge has liberation, one who doesn't have knowledge doesn't have liberation. That's why we repeatedly say to Mother Durga, "Gyanagyana kritam papam durgottam hara durgatin" (The sins committed in knowledge and ignorance, take them away and remove the distress). Whatever sins we commit in knowledge and ignorance, you take them and liberate me. Without knowledge, nothing will happen. Knowledge is the main thing.
Interviewer:
Exactly, that's why Krishna also said, "Liberation is in knowledge."
Guru Shyama Khyapa:
That's why Ramprasad used to say, "Mother Kali made me mad with the judgment of knowledge." Many say many things, but without knowledge, it's not complete. Within him, there's no completeness. An ignorant person has many things, but they don't think much. Eating, wearing, roaming around – that's it. A person of knowledge never does that. And the only way to liberation is, one who has knowledge will get liberation. One who doesn't have knowledge will not get liberation.
Interviewer:
Is this world a mystery or just a play of illusion? They are writing this based on the Upanishads. They say we call this world "ours," but it's not ours at all. Everything is His. Everything is Mother's.
Guru Shyama Khyapa:
Everything is His. I say repeatedly, out of ego, we say "mine, mine." But there's nothing called "mine." Look, the land you live on is not yours. You are writing a deed, but when the government needs it, the government can take my land. It's written in the deed. That means the house or land you live on is not yours. You are paying rent or tax. If you don't pay tax or rent, they will remove you. So it's not your land. That's why we say there's nothing called "mine, mine," everything is Mother's. This is what the Upanishads say. I'm not saying it. We discussed this a long time ago. They wrote to me in the letter, asking Gurudev to discuss it. So I did. I liked it very much. Look, the place we live in, we say 'Bharat', I am an Indian. But no one knows the meaning of the word 'Bharat'. This is surprising. No one knows the meaning of the word 'Bharat'. 'Bha' means knowledge, and 'rata' means engaged in it. We are the inhabitants of Bharat, we are always engaged in knowledge. Such a prosperous country, such a country of knowledge, I don't think there's another. That's why we say again and again, "Bharat will again be the best in the world. It will be great in religion, great in work... the sun will rise again in the old East... today the mountain king is the guard... the Ganges and Godavari are flowing... the nectar is still flowing." This is what Bharat is. Bharat has Ganges and Godavari. It's called nectar-filled. It's still flowing, it hasn't stopped. So, the point is, we are ignorant people. We don't have anything called knowledge. We are masters of logic. We give logic for everything, we argue. But actually, we know nothing. If you try to teach today's boys about Bharat, they can't say anything. Their parents can't say anything. And I'm saying, many people don't know the meaning of Bharat. Even the person (interviewer) didn't know.
Interviewer:
I just heard it for the first time from Gurudev.
Guru Shyama Khyapa:
Right. You heard it for the first time, but the word has this meaning. It has knowledge. Bharat is a highly developed country, which is nowhere else in the world. Whatever great men were born, the soil of their feet is here. So Bharat is a different kind of Bharat. A Bharat of knowledge. Not of ignorance. Ignorant people can't live in Bharat. They shouldn't. Only people of knowledge will live in Bharat. Those who are engaged in knowledge (Bharat). Those who practice regularly. Those who practice about God. Practice knowledge. Only they have the right to live in Bharat. This is my opinion.
Interviewer:
Audience, you heard it. First of all, I hope you got the answers to the questions you had from Gurudev. Audience, you learned many things. I didn't know much. Gurudev initiated me. And besides the ritual initiation (Diksha), the education (Shiksha) I got is from my Gurudev.
Guru Shyama Khyapa:
First education (Shiksha), then initiation (Diksha). You have to take education first, then initiation. There's only one word: Shiksha-Diksha. There's a hyphen between them. If you go to Ramakrishna Mission or Belur Math, they won't initiate you first. They will tell you to read first. After reading, they will ask questions, and if you answer, you will get initiation. Not before that. You need that knowledge. Yes, if there's no knowledge, what's the point? An ignorant person has no consciousness. No inner fire. Fire has a power; it will burn everything. A child has whatever it has; it will burn it. It has no consciousness. Water has no consciousness; it will wash away whatever it finds. So, these two don't have consciousness. Fire and water will never have consciousness.
Interviewer:
Audience, you heard it. I will come before you again with another topic. For now, stay well, stay healthy. Pranam Gurudev.
Guru Shyama Khyapa:
Pranam, Pranam.