Host:
Gurudev, I begin today's episode by offering my respect to Mother Bama Tara of Shantikunj and to you. We have been receiving various comments from people, and many wish to know certain things from you.
Guru Shyama Khyapa:
Yes, certainly.
Host:
A question has come, though unfortunately, I cannot recall the gentleman's name at this moment. He wants to know: who is greaterâthe Shiksha Guru (teacher/mentor) or the Diksha Guru (spiritual initiator)?
Guru Shyama Khyapa:
I see. First, I must apologize to everyone; I cannot speak from a memorized script. It is difficult for me and makes conversation awkward, so I have my notes open here. Please do not take offense.
Guru Shyama Khyapa:
Now, Pradip-da, you are asking whether the Shiksha Guru or the Diksha Guru is greater? First, there are your parents. They are the ones who taught you your first letters and how to read. They taught you how to countâone, two, three, four. They are our first gurus. Mother and father are our primary gurus.
Guru Shyama Khyapa:
As we grew a bit older and started going to school, the masters and teachers there became our gurusâour Shiksha Gurus. Without education (shiksha), there can be no initiation (diksha). Education comes first, then initiation. We receive our education in schools from various teachers; they are our Shiksha Gurus because they impart knowledge to us.
Guru Shyama Khyapa:
Then, as we grow up, we tend to forget everything. We forget our parents and our school teachers. And what do we do? We start searching for a guru. We worry that we haven't been initiated or haven't found a spiritual guide. At that stage, we overlook the parents and teachers we already had and become preoccupied with finding a Diksha Guru. This is human nature.
Guru Shyama Khyapa:
As one's spiritual and intellectual level rises, one begins to think, "I have no guru." But you did have gurus! Your parents were gurus. Then your teachers were gurus. As I said, initiation follows education. So, we start searching for a guru and eventually find one. Some find a good guru (Sad-guru), some find a bad one, but everyone finds someone.
Guru Shyama Khyapa:
It is a significant matter. You ask who is greater? To me, all three are great. When you were a child and someone taught you the alphabet or numbers, they were no less a guru. Then came the Shiksha Guru in school; through their teaching, you gained understanding and consciousness. Later, as an adult, you felt the need for a spiritual guide.
Guru Shyama Khyapa:
This is how it usually goes for people, Pradip-da. People forget that their parents and teachers were also gurus before seeking a Diksha Guru. None of them is "small" or inferior in any way. What does a spiritual Gurudev do? He gives you a seed mantra. That is his role. But we often get carried away and obsessed with the idea of a guru in a different way. In reality, all three are "Maha-gurus" (Great Gurus); none is less than the other. If my mind is narrow or "wicked," I might rank them, but none is inferior. Parents are not "less" than a spiritual guru. Therefore, one should not judge gurus in that way. You must look at it holistically.
Host:
Gurudev, there is another question.
Guru Shyama Khyapa:
Yes, go on.
Host:
A young woman named Sathi Pal has asked a question.
Guru Shyama Khyapa:
Ah, Sathi Pal. That is a nice name.
Host:
She wishes to perform a small homa (fire ritual) for Adya Ma in her small home. Is that permissible?
Guru Shyama Khyapa:
Yes, it can be done. Now is the time to call upon Mother Adya. Only Adya Shakti Mahamaya can save us from the current situation we find ourselves in. Do you understand what I am saying? She can save us.
Guru Shyama Khyapa:
In a few days, you will see Durga Puja being celebrated in every neighborhood. Perhaps not with large idols, but with simple rituals using a consecrated pot (ghot). Everyone wants this because they believe that celebrating Durga Puja will drive this pandemic away from the world. This thought has entered people's minds. In several places, I have seen people starting rituals for Durga because she is the one who can provide liberation from the current crisis.
Guru Shyama Khyapa:
And Adya Ma is the same. I once mentioned that in the Maha Nirvana Tantra, Lord Shiva said to chant the Adya Stotra, install the Adya Ghot, and worship her. As for the homa, if you perform the puja, the homa is part of it. She should definitely do it. This is the right time. Every moment, one should remember Adya Shakti. Remember the Primal Power who can end the chaos created in this world.
Guru Shyama Khyapa:
When Mother Durga saw that the soldiers of the demon Mahishasura were filling the world with chaos, she wondered how to stop it. She then sought the help of Adya Shakti. When Adya Shakti appeared, Durga asked what to do. Adya told her to first silence the noise. Mother Durga struck the earth with her fist, and that sound silenced everything else. So, now is the time to call upon Adya. Perform her worship, do the homa, or whatever you can. It is a personal matter, but it is necessary now.
Host:
So you are saying that at this moment, just prayer is not enough; one should also perform a homa?
Guru Shyama Khyapa:
Do the homa, do whatever you can. It is a matter of the soul. If your heart desires to perform a small homa, then do it. Who is stopping you? You don't need grand, complex mantras. Just remember Adya Shakti Mahamaya, chant the Adya Stotra, perform the rituals you know, and if you can do a homa, there is no harm.
Host:
Sathi Pal had one more question. She wants to know if women can place Tulsi leaves on Lord Narayan's head.
Guru Shyama Khyapa:
No, we haven't reached a point where that is accepted. Women cannot place Tulsi on Narayan's head. Never. According to the scripturesânot me, but the shastrasâwomen are not supposed to touch Narayan. We believe in the scriptures, even if it creates some hesitation in our minds today.
Guru Shyama Khyapa:
However, I have seen women performing Narayan seba (service) in many homes where there is no Brahmin priest available. They might have found a Narayan-shila (sacred stone) or someone gave them one, and I see them placing Tulsi on his head. They are doing it. But our scriptures forbid it.
Guru Shyama Khyapa:
We must give priority to the scriptures. Since the scriptures are quite strict on this, we say that women should not touch the Narayan-shila, let alone the Tulsi. Women do not have the right to touch Narayan according to the shastras. Personally, I wouldn't mind, but the scriptures say this act should not be done.
Host:
Gurudev, we see that it isn't just those of us who follow Sanatan Dharma who discuss it; people of other faiths are also studying our religion.
Guru Shyama Khyapa:
Why wouldn't they? It is such a vast religionâone without beginning or end, one that is indestructible. That is what "Sanatan" meansâit has no beginning, no head, and no tail. There is nothing in any other religion in the world like what is found in the Hindu Sanatan Dharma of India.
Guru Shyama Khyapa:
So, people often come to study our religion. They may not convert, but they study it and realize that what the Hindu Sanatan Dharma says is not found anywhere else. That is why people are attracted to it.
Host:
There is a reason for mentioning this, Gurudev. The person who asked about this is a gentleman named Jahid Bin Rahim.
Guru Shyama Khyapa:
Very well.
Host:
I don't know how he studied it or how it appeared in his mind's eye, but he envisioned that the flag of the Puri temple had fallen. And it actually happened! He saw it in his mind, and it came true in reality. I feel, Gurudev, that he must have been studying this for it to happen...
Guru Shyama Khyapa:
Certainly. It couldn't happen otherwise. And what does it matter if he is Muslim? I don't understand why you keep bringing up "Muslim, Muslim." After all, he is a human being. If he likes a certain religion or a certain scripture, he will study it. He saw a vision of the Puri flag breaking, and that is exactly what occurred. What can you say to that?
Host:
But Gurudev, my question is, how did this vision appear in his mind's eye?
Guru Shyama Khyapa:
Think about itâperhaps he contemplates Lord Jagannath or has some devotion toward Him. Otherwise, why would it appear in his vision? It is quite a remarkable thing that a Muslim gentleman is saying this. What was the name again?
Host:
I would like you to say itâJahid Bin Rahim.
Guru Shyama Khyapa:
Right, Jahid Bin Rahim. This gentleman saw it in his mind's eyeâwe all have an inner eye. He saw the flag of Jagannath breaking. And it was correct; that is exactly what happened. So what can you say? He may be Muslim, but so what? He had a vision of Jagannath's flag breaking and wrote to us about it.
Guru Shyama Khyapa:
I am pleased to hear it. I have read the Quran and the Hadith. I am not lying; I have them right here and can show you. There is a lot of wisdom in them. We often just try to show off our own Hindu religion. But what is written in the Quran or the Hadith matches the truth, word for word. I cannot dismiss the Quran or the Hadith.
Guru Shyama Khyapa:
I may be born a Brahmin and I may chant the Vedas, but I have seen that nothing written in the Hadith or the Quran has been proven false. I see it with my own eyes when I read them. I have great respect for them.
Host:
You find a lot of similarities?
Guru Shyama Khyapa:
I find immense similarities, my son.
Host:
Gurudev, it feels good to know that there are people in the world who don't create divisions between Hindus and Muslims. If more people were like this, the world would be much more beautiful.
Guru Shyama Khyapa:
What divisions? Tell me, what is there to divide? It is your "wicked" (paji) mindâyour sinful mindâthat creates these things. You say "he is Hindu, he is Muslim." I don't do that because I don't have a sinful mind.
Guru Shyama Khyapa:
I have initiated so many Muslims; you have seen it yourself. Many Muslims have taken initiation from me. Why did they come running to me? Why did they take initiation? They call me "Abbajan" or "Babajan" in their own language. I have initiated them.
Guru Shyama Khyapa:
So, religious labels don't matter. It is only because your mind is narrow that you talk this way. If these divisions were gone, there would be no more conflict in the world.
Guru Shyama Khyapa:
The poet Ramprasad wrote: "Prasad says the mind is wicked, that's why it's lured by temptation." This is your doing, not God's. It is because my mind is narrow that I differentiate between Muslims, Hindus, Jains, or Buddhists. "Difference" and "non-difference"âthese are just words. In the end, it is all the same. It is the same Allah, the same Bhagwan. In your final moments, what will you do? You might call out to Allah, I might call out to Bhagwan, and someone else might call out to God. Don't you understand?
Guru Shyama Khyapa:
That is why Ramprasad said: "Those who are foreigners call You 'God'; the Mughals, Pathans, and Ghazis call You 'Khoda'. I know it's all your divine play, O Mother Tara."
Guru Shyama Khyapa:
When you are dying, will you call Allah, or will I call Narayan, or will a Buddhist call Buddha? This is how it goes. At the end, everything is one. In the end, there are no divisions. We only create divisions while we have these bodies and minds because of our sinful nature. In reality, there is no difference.
Host:
Gurudev, listening to your discussion today... when you spoke about Jahid Bin Rahim and how you view all faiths, it gave us goosebumps. It is only possible for someone like you to speak this wayâsomeone who is completely free of prejudice and doesn't care about caste, creed, or religion. Gurudev, my respects to you.
Guru Shyama Khyapa:
Bless you, my son. Bless you.