Interviewer: Today both Mother and Father are being shown. It is an annual ceremony. Our annual function takes place on this day every year. Shiva and Parvati are seated, as you can see. Guru has been performing this worship ceremony for almost 30 to 32 years now. Although Guru used to perform this festival and puja unknowingly to people before, he doesn't want to count that. Greetings, Guru. If you could say something about today's ceremony?
Guru Shyama Khyapa: There's nothing much to say. The ceremony has been going on for a long time. There was a time when there were no lights, and we used to worship in the light of lamps and candles. Puja was performed by the light of burning corpses; five or six corpses would burn, and we would worship the Mother while looking at them. It used to be done in whatever light was available from the funeral pyres and the dim light of the lamps. That time is gone now. Back then, there wasn't all this fuss with cameras and mobile phones. There were no mobiles, essentially. If photos could have been taken then, people would have understood what kind of puja it wasāfive or six corpses burning at once, and worshipping the Mother among them.
Interviewer: A terrifying scene.
Guru Shyama Khyapa: A terrifying scene. Puja with fish and meatāit was a formidable worship. Those days are gone. Now there's light. We've worshipped here in candlelight as well, when there was no electricity.
Interviewer: By the light of the funeral pyres and candles.
Guru Shyama Khyapa: Yes, puja was done in that light. And back then, there wasn't so much food. There was no money for eating. Now there's plenty of money, no shortage of food. People eat; the devotees arrange everything. It's happening, it's going on. I can't see much anymore, nor do I look. I've aged, almost 80 now. I can't perform the puja anymore; other boys do it, my disciples. Kali Puja and Tara Puja are performed. Where is our Sujeet Babu?
Interviewer: Sujeet Babu? Yes, he is here. Sujeet Babu!
Guru Shyama Khyapa: Sujeet Babu is here. He performs the fire rituals (Homa Yagna) here; he does most of them. He will do it today too; everything is ready. He says he won't do it before nightfall.
Interviewer: Amavasya starts at 9:41 PM.
Guru Shyama Khyapa: Without Amavasya, the Mother's puja can't be started, and puja in the cremation ground (Shhmashana) can't be done either. He performs the Shhmashana puja now; I used to do it before. However, if a corpse arrives, I have to go. They can't handle the corpse puja properly; they aren't used to it, not habitual. When a corpse comes, they call me.
Interviewer: There's also an element of fear.
Guru Shyama Khyapa: Yes, there's definitely fear. It doesn't work if you aren't somewhat hardened. Anyway, I did it last year. Before that, too, corpse puja was performed. A corpse must come; otherwise, the puja won't happen. People come and request, "Please perform the puja so they may attain heaven." We do it for them. They wait patiently. After the puja is finished, we place the corpse and come back here for the main puja. This has been the practice since forever. And before, when there were wooden pyres, there was no shortage of corpses. Anyway, that was then. It's more important to see what's happening now. Now it's a grand affair, a formidable affair.
Interviewer: Guru, how do the feelings from 30-32 years ago when you started this puja compare to the feelings now?
Guru Shyama Khyapa: No, no, there's a world of difference. Puja of the Mother cannot be done in light. It must be done in the middle of the night, in darkness. Only one lamp will burnāa 'Jaak Pradip' (vigil lamp). That lamp must not go out. Worshipping the Mother while the vigil lamp burns... since the mantras are memorized, there's no problem. We don't need to read from a book.
Interviewer: Memorized by heart.
Guru Shyama Khyapa: Yes, memorized by heart, for both Durga Puja and Kali Puja. So, we didn't need light. Puja used to be done with fish and meat. That stopped when we performed the Mahamrityunjaya Yagna for a thousand days, for three years. Then we gave up fish and meat. We transitioned completely.
Interviewer: What was the thrill you felt in your mind back then?
Guru Shyama Khyapa: It was a terrifying power then. I could do whatever I wanted to anyone.
Interviewer: Hair-raising stuff.
Guru Shyama Khyapa: Exactly. I had immense power then. You could say I've let go of that power now. I never misused it, and I don't hold onto it anymore either. Because holding onto power is very painful; the body trembles. And if I said something wrong to someone, it would come true. That's why I let go of the power; I don't hold it. Yes, there are many aspects to tantric practice. We have practiced 'Pure Tantra,' which no one knows about. We reached the very end of tantric practice. So we know tantra, but we've let go of the power. Keeping the power is very hard on the body; one could even have a stroke. That's why we let it go. Now I just come and sit, watch the Mother's puja, and listenāthat's enough for me. Nothing else.
Interviewer: It's a matter of great joy. Many people gather.
Guru Shyama Khyapa: Large gatherings aren't the main thing. The main thing is that the Mother's puja has a different kind of joy and feeling. Worshipping in the light of lamps... Bampdev Baba used to get such joy. Bampdev Baba comes. When evening falls, Bampdev Baba arrives. Many have seen Bampdev Baba enter my body while I was worshipping. I said, "You will die." And so it happened.
Interviewer: It actually happened?
Guru Shyama Khyapa: He died. He told me, "I saw Bampdev Baba entering your body." I said, "You are a great fool. Your death is inevitable." The boy died at the age of 25. His name was Karna.
Interviewer: One shouldn't speak of divine visions.
Guru Shyama Khyapa: No, one shouldn't speak of them, nor should one see them. We used to tell people not to stay around when we sat for puja before. This puja is not to be seenāit's the puja of 'Kaal' (Time/Death). The puja of death. What is the meaning of 'Death is standing before you'? From Kaal comes Kali. Grammatically, adding the 'ee' suffix to 'Kaal' makes 'Kali.' It sounds sweet, but this is the puja of Kaal, the puja of death. The puja of Mahakal. The one lying under the Mother's feet is Mahakal. His puja is very difficult, and it's the puja of death, of intense fear. It can't be done without people. One person would stand with a bamboo pole in hand. For as long as we performed the puja, a person stood there with a bamboo pole. Bamboo is something that even ghosts and spirits fear. When a person dies, they are carried on a bamboo...
Interviewer: Carried on a stretcher (macha).
Guru Shyama Khyapa: Carried on a bamboo stretcher. Do you know why? Now everything is made of wood, etc. Back then, it was bamboo. Not for any other reason, but because ghosts and spirits fear bamboo. That's why when we practiced tantra, a person stood there with a bamboo pole.
Interviewer: A guardian with a bamboo pole.
Guru Shyama Khyapa: Yes, a bamboo pole. And we had a rule: the protectors of the cremation ground (Shhmashana Rakshak) would escort me to my house. I used to say repeatedly that when I entered my house, no one should see me. This was the rule. I would tell them before coming, "Don't see me when I return." Because they would escort me right into my room. Many people saw them at my houseāmen with cloth tied around their heads and sticks in their hands. There was a commotion, "A thief has come!" Later I said, "They aren't thieves; they are the protectors of the cremation ground. They are protecting us." There are protectors of the cremation ground, guardians of the gate. There are people for this, for the gate of the cremation ground.
Interviewer: Invisible.
Guru Shyama Khyapa: Invisible, but they are there. And the protectors of the cremation ground are terrifying. If you ever come face-to-face with them, and you don't shed some blood on the ground, your death is certain. They look hideous. Their power is immense. If we ever came face-to-face, we always kept a weapon with us. We would cut ourselves a little and drop some blood on the ground to survive. Otherwise, you won't survive. It's terrifying. There are many such things that we have experienced and learned. Tantric practice is a very good thing. What else can I say?
Interviewer: Today the puja will probably start after 11 PM.
Guru Shyama Khyapa: It should only be done after 11 PMā'Nisha' (Night). Without Nisha, it won't work. The Mother comes in the night. She doesn't come just like that; she comes in the night. The devotee will be there, the Mother will be there, and no one else. The lamps will flicker. It's hair-raising. For those who have the mantras memorized and don't need to read from a book, they don't need light. We can recite the Kali Puja or Durga Puja mantras from memory. We don't need to look at the mantras. So, there's a world of difference between puja now and puja then. Now my disciples perform the puja, and I just sit and watch. There's nothing else I can do.
Interviewer: Today the Mother has come for this annual festival; she comes to the temple once a year. We feel very good and happy to have the Mother among us, to see her puja. Thank you very much, Mother, for being with us today. Please bless us all if you can. Guru, please bless us as well. We live with this hope.
Guru Shyama Khyapa: See, you are saying this, but the Mother is here; she will bless. I am nobody.
Interviewer: You are the representative, the middleman.
Guru Shyama Khyapa: Don't say such things, it's wrong. Since you've come to the Mother, she will protect you. I am not the one who protects.
Interviewer: Still, Guru, people call you "Guru, Guru."
Guru Shyama Khyapa: Yes, they do. If I am your Guru, my job is to protect you. That is my job, my duty. It's not about taking money from you.
Interviewer: Just as you take the sins of your disciples, you also bless them.
Guru Shyama Khyapa: Yes, I must take the sins. Who else will take them if they commit sins? They must come to me.
Interviewer: Being a Guru means accepting all sins.
Guru Shyama Khyapa: That is the reality. It is the duty of a Guru. It is the ultimate truth. No one can deny it. A Guru has to monitor many things. That's why I don't want to give initiation (diksha) much. Many people have taken initiation, and it becomes a responsibility. If we eat at someone's house, we are bound to them. Eating someone's food means being bound. That's why we don't like to eat at people's houses. Accepting food means being bound; I have to work for them, no matter how much they sin.
Interviewer: But everyone wants to serve the Guru along with God.
Guru Shyama Khyapa: "Guru Brahma, Guru Vishnu, Guru Devo Maheshwara." The power of Brahma, Vishnu, and Maheshwar is within the Guru. That's it. If God is angry, the Guru can save you. But if the Guru is angry, even God cannot save you. That shows what a Guru is. If the Guru is angry, Brahma, Vishnu, and Maheshwar have no power to counteract it. But if the Guru is satisfied, no matter how much God curses, nothing will happen. The Guru will manage it. This is the specialty of a Guru, which is why one should have a Guru. People should have a Guru. Education and initiation go hand-in-hand ('Shikhsha-Diksha'). People say that, right? Both are necessary.
Interviewer: Guru, please look after all your disciples and devotees for the next year. Look after the people of the world.
Guru Shyama Khyapa: We have this calamity going on, a terrifying calamity. We also have a responsibility. We try to ensure that nothing happens where we are. Unless God takes us away, no danger can come here. There will be storms and rain, but they will be tolerableāno lives will be lost. Nothing extraordinary will happen as long as I am here.
Interviewer: What about those who are far away?
Guru Shyama Khyapa: I have a range. A person is stationed at every place. You don't know that.
Interviewer: Will you contact them for others?
Guru Shyama Khyapa: It will happen through waves. There is a connection. A saint's connection is always there. You can see there's a saint here. He hasn't just come for no reason. I am not a saint; my attire is not that of a saint. But how many saints are coming? They are coming before your eyes.
Interviewer: Just a few days ago, someone came from Mayong.
Guru Shyama Khyapa: Someone came from Mayong, performed the fire ritual and puja, and left. Before that, someone came from Kolkata. Before that, from the Behala side. Now, I don't know why they are coming to me. But many saints and monks have come. Even from Pashupatinath, saints have come to visit me.
Interviewer: Alright, Guru, let's leave it here for today. There's a lot of work left, and many devotees are waiting to meet you. Mother, please accept our greetings. Guru, please accept our greetings. We'll end it here today.
Guru Shyama Khyapa: Alright, alright.