Narrator:
(Sounds of religious chanting and a conch shell blowing)
Disciple:
I offer my respects, Gurudeb.
Guru:
My blessings to you. Yes, speak.
Disciple:
I would like to learn about a specific topic from you today. It is about forgiveness. Different people have different ways of evaluating forgiveness. I want to hear from youâwhat should forgiveness be like? What should one do? Please tell us.
Guru:
You see, we have read the Gita. The concept of forgiveness comes from the Gita. Krishna repeatedly says, "Learn to forgive. Forgive. Know how to forgive." One must understand why we should forgive. Is there a need for it? The words spoken by Krishna in the Gita are: "Forgiveness is the ultimate virtue" (Kshama hi paramo dharma).
Guru:
Consider the person you areâwhat is your Dharma? That which holds and supports you is your Dharma. The word "Dharma" essentially means that which sustains you. Among those things, forgiveness is a major tenet that sustains you. Without forgiveness, there is nothing in this world. One must learn to forgive; one must know how to forgive. Forgiveness is a form of tolerance.
Guru:
When Shishupala was born, Krishna was there. Krishna had told Shishupala, "If you commit a hundred offenses, I will forgive you. But if you commit the 101st offense, I will not forgive you." In that sense, Krishna did forgive a hundred offenses, but at the 101st, he no longer forgave; he took action. He gave him time for those hundred offenses.
Guru:
You see, you cannot forgive easily because the six vices (Sada Ripu) haven't taught you to forgive, nor will they. You are being driven by these six vices. Today, what people call "religion"âthat which sustains youâis your Dharma. We talk about Islam, Hinduism, Christianity, or Buddhism, but that is not quite it. Those are just groups of people coming together to form a religious identity. That is not Dharma.
Guru:
Dharma is that which sustains you; it is that which guides you. Within this Dharma, forgiveness is a grand thing. It is a great virtue for a person. It isn't just something you do; it must be learned, known, and understood. For this, one needs to study the Gita and the Puranas. Many times, God has forgiven many people.
Guru:
Look at the disciples who come here; not everyone is good. Among those I have initiated, some have duplicity. Sometimes they abuse me, and sometimes they fall at my feet. But our only duty is to forgive. Whatever they are doing, let them do it; I don't need to look into it. I am as I am, steady in my own Dharma. Within my character, forgiveness is a major element.
Guru:
Many young men come here to be initiated; some love me deeply, some have great devotion. Yet, there are some who practice duplicity or try to deceive me. Recently, there was a major instance of deception. I don't want to name names, but deception did occur. But in the end, what happened to me?
Guru:
When a person slaps someone, the one who receives the slap isn't humiliated; the one who delivers the slap is the one who is truly disgraced. That is the rule. Therefore, forgiveness is an internal matter. I have forgiven them, even if they have caused me great loss. Ultimately, there is nothing in this worldâthe result is zero. So, what harm can they really do to me? If you can understand thisâthat there is nothing in this world and you can take nothing with youâthen you realize it's all a zero. We just drag this body along. As long as the soul can drag the body, it continues; when the body becomes useless, the soul leaves for another body. No matter how much wrong a person does, you should forgive them again and again.
Disciple:
But Gurudeb, there are minor sins and then there are great sinsâterrible wrongs. For instance, if we look at India today, we see the cruelty and heartless violence against women. The physical abuse they endureâcan that also be forgiven?
Guru:
You see, the male population has turned women into products. Women have tried to rise many times. In ancient times, Gargi, Maitreyi, and Apala performed grand sacrifices; they were seers who understood the hymns. But they had to endure much humiliation from society. Our Vedas describe a patriarchal society where others find it hard to enter. Women were given no place; they were used as products.
Guru:
From that perspective, when a woman endures great torture and stays in her household, she carries immense pain and agony in her heart. Her only outlet is her tears; she cries into her pillow. No one hears her cries, nor does anyone feel the need to. A housewife who is oppressed has only her tears as her resource. No one comes forward for her. This is the rule in a patriarchal society.
Guru:
However, if you look at history, you will see that in the past, queens used to guide the kings. The key was in the hands of the queen, not the king. Even now, in many places, I have seen men being dominated by women. But that is becoming less possible now; times have changed. Women also want to be equal to men. My own Guru once said that after a hundred years, you wouldn't be able to distinguish between a woman and a man. They will smoke, they will work in various fields, they will drink, they will demand equal rights as men, and they will wear shirts and pants.
Guru:
You can see this before your eyes. There is humiliation of women, but there is also a lot of hidden pain behind it. A girl wants to have a family; no girl wants to be "unlucky." Everyone wants to have a home. But seeing the constant oppression, a sense of independence has awakened in themâwhy should we remain subordinate? Especially in this era, women are educated; they have passed exams, become engineers, and doctors. Why should they stay suppressed?
Guru:
But as a result of this defiance, families are breaking apartâone after another. If the family unit doesn't exist, the world won't survive. The household is what held people together. Without it, a person becomes a wanderer, going anywhere without purpose.
Guru:
Because women still existâespecially those who live in brothelsâit is said that their pain is indescribable. Yet, they too have held society together. In the past, some people went to brothels, but it was viewed differently. Nowadays, there is no such thing as a "brothel" alone; the streets, trains, and buses have become like that. Where men have more power, they use it. Women have a certain level of tolerance, so they don't always become aggressive immediately. But given the current state, if women become even more aggressive, the world will turn upside down.
Guru:
Every day I hear about ten or twenty families breaking up. There are court cases and divorces. People give birth to two or three children and then the husband leaves the wife. What will these women do? They often have no choice but to turn to sex work or labor in others' homes, where they face further humiliation. Even those who work as caregivers in houses where people are sick find no respect. They are exploited in one way or another, though some speak out and others don't.
Guru:
And the result? You see murders happening one after another. Because of these "love triangles" or "four-way affairs," these things are happening. Now it is seen that the female population has decreased compared to men. In India, the female population has dropped by 5% to 6%, while men are 5% to 6% more. Where there is a surplus of men, there will be conflict over women.
Guru:
Some women want wealth and money. If they see a successful man, they try to win him over, regardless of whether he has a wife. Nowadays, there is even "3-minute vashikaran" (sorcery). A woman goes, pays ten thousand rupees, and asks to have a man under her control. It might work for a few days, but then it breaks. Then she moves on to another person.
Guru:
This mess in society will have terrible consequences. You haven't seen anything yet; you haven't seen the dark, rotting side of society. It doesn't rot in a day; it rots slowly until the whole thing is gone.
Disciple:
Are you saying, Gurudeb, that even after seeing all this wrongdoing, we must forgive?
Guru:
Forgiveness is something else. Who will forgive whom? If both are equal, no one can forgive the other. A household is made of both man and woman. If the man doesn't learn to forgive, the woman won't either, even though they live together.
Guru:
Forgiveness is different. Those who have no shame or fear cannot learn to forgive. Ma Sarada used to say that one should not lack three things: shame, hatred, and fear. But these have vanished from the market. No one knows what shame is anymore. No one knows what hatred is. No one knows what fear is. Society is moving with a certain aggression. This aggression among both men and women is becoming their downfallâthe idea that "I will not back down." Both are separate now, leading to breakups and court cases.
Guru:
Then the man looks for another woman, and the woman for another man. They become like "leftovers." We perform a ritual called Ucchista Chandala Puja with leftovers. Today, humans are accepting "leftover" lives; they won't find anything original. It's impossible.
Disciple:
In that case, you shouldn't just call the women "leftovers"; the same applies to the men.
Guru:
Exactly. What is the difference between man and nature? So, who will forgive whom? There is no room for forgiveness. It will take a long time for people to learn it. In the current state of society, forgiveness will soon cease to exist. "I will not forgive him!"
Guru:
But forgiveness is a Dharma, and it has its own specialty. One must learn it through the Gita. Krishna's reassuring words: "Learn to forgive. Be forgiving. Forgiveness is the ultimate virtue." That is all gone now. Who reads the Gita anymore? Who needs it? A few people read it superficially without understanding the meaning. They can't explain what a particular chapter says.
Guru:
Now the Gita has been translated into Bengali with explanations. Perhaps people will learn something from it. But what can they do? Given the environmental circumstances, they can do nothing. Society is being polluted. It will gradually decay until one day it vanishes.
Guru:
And these children who are being born to these "leftover" couplesâthey don't even have the right to perform ancestral rites (Pinda). The Gita says: Lupta-pinda-dak-kriya. Krishna told Arjuna that if "hybrid" (unauthorized) descendants are born, they lose the right to offer Pinda to their ancestors. Their ancestors fall into hell, and they themselves live in hell every moment. This is the truth of the Gita. Therefore, forgiveness won't remain. It won't happen. Who will forgive whom? Forget about the concept of forgiveness.
Disciple:
Gurudeb, I have heard your words. It was very enlightening. My respects to you.
Guru:
My blessings to you.
Narrator:
(Sounds of religious music and conch shell blowing)
Spiritual Insight
Guru Shyama Khyapa delivers a profound discourse on forgiveness (Kshama) as the highest virtue declared in the Bhagavad Gita. Yet he observes with sorrow that modern society, having lost the essential qualities of shame, hatred, and fear, no longer possesses the capacity to forgive. The breakdown of family units, the objectification of women, and the rise of "leftover" lives where relationships are discarded like Ucchista (remnants) reveal a civilization in slow decay. The Guru's message is both a warning and a call to return to the sustaining Dharma of forgivenessâone that requires understanding that ultimately, we own nothing and take nothing with us, making the capacity to forgive the true measure of spiritual maturity.