Devotee:
Greetings, Gurudev.
Guru Shyama Khyapa:
Greetings, my son. Speak.
Devotee:
Today, we would like to ask you to shed some light on the subject of faith and disbelief.
Guru Shyama Khyapa:
That is a vast subject. Among us sadhus (monks), there is a saying: "Faith is like breath." Just as we take a breath and it might stop at any moment, faith is similar. There is another proverb: "Faith leads to the object, while argument leads nowhere."
Guru Shyama Khyapa:
In our country, there are many theists and atheists. Those who do not believe in God are called atheists, specifically regarding the divine. Theists are those who believe in the Lord and have faith in Him. Faith means surrender—to see an image or a deity and believe, "Yes, God is here."
Guru Shyama Khyapa:
Then there are those with a scientific temperament who want "documents" or proof. They say, "Show me." Science can create water by combining hydrogen and oxygen, but it can perhaps create one bucket. It cannot provide water for the whole of West Bengal or India. Science can show on paper how it is done, but that is not the same as the reality.
Guru Shyama Khyapa:
Think of an electric wire. It is just a wire until you touch it. You won't know there is electricity inside until you have that experience. That is a matter of faith and experience.
Guru Shyama Khyapa:
Someone once asked me about their origins. I told him, "You have never seen your ancestors—your great-grandfather or those before him. Does that mean they didn't exist? You deny them because you haven't seen them, yet you exist because of them." People ask many such questions, but that is a different matter.
Guru Shyama Khyapa:
There is a story about Tailanga Swami in Varanasi. An atheist once went to him. The Swami was a "Trikaldarshi" (one who sees the past, present, and future) and understood who was sincere and who was not. The atheist asked, "Baba, you have been here a long time. People call you the 'Living Shiva.' Have you seen God? Have you seen the Lord of the Universe?"
Guru Shyama Khyapa:
The Swami looked up at the sky and called out, "God, are you there?" An echo came back: "No, I am not."
Guru Shyama Khyapa:
The Swami told the atheist, "See? He isn't there." Because the man was an atheist, the Swami showed him exactly what he was looking for. If someone comes to me and asks if God exists, I say, "Yes, He does." If they ask me to show Him, I cannot. It is a matter of faith. Both belief and disbelief coexist.
Guru Shyama Khyapa:
Another group of believers came to the Swami and asked the same question: "Is God real? Have you seen Him?" Again, the Swami looked at the sky and asked, "God, are you there?" This time the echo replied, "Yes, I am." He told them, "See? He is there." You receive according to your nature.
Devotee:
Gurudev, you mentioned Tailanga Swami, the "Living Shiva" of Varanasi. Similarly, many events regarding faith and disbelief must have occurred here at Shantipunj involving your Guru, Bama-deb (Bamakhepa). Could you share some?
Guru Shyama Khyapa:
Bama-deb is my Ishta (Guru/deity). I usually don't speak much about him to others because people might misinterpret or cut "tonti-ti" (critique/mock) his words. Although no one would dare mock Bama-deb, I still prefer to be cautious to protect his dignity. I only speak what is absolutely authentic.
Guru Shyama Khyapa:
Bama-deb never made a show of his power. He wouldn't say, "Come, I will show you the Mother." Once, a schoolteacher came to him and asked for initiation. Baba gave it to him. Then the teacher demanded to see the Goddess Tara. Baba understood he was a bit of a fraud. He sent him into the dense forest of the Mahasmashan (crematorium) to meditate. The man eventually emerged "unmad"—he had gone mad.
Guru Shyama Khyapa:
We have seen Baba's presence in this crematorium. Many have seen him wandering here. When people tell me they've seen him, I tell them to keep it quiet. He comes here during our major prayers. We worship Bama-deb first, then Mother Tara. "First Bama, then Tara." It is our firm belief that if Baba comes, the Mother will surely follow.
Devotee:
Many people believe there is a "power" in the universe but don't believe in idols or images of deities. What do you say to that?
Guru Shyama Khyapa:
Deities and idols have been part of our tradition for hundreds of years. In the Chandi, Mother Durga herself says, "I have no fixed form; the expansion of this universe is Me." The sunrise, the mountains, the rivers, all living beings—that is Her. Krishna says the same in the Gita: "I am in everything."
Guru Shyama Khyapa:
Deities are images created by man. Whether made of stone or clay, they must be "awakened" through Pran-Pratishtha (consecration). Only a true Sadhaka (practitioner) can keep the Mother awakened. Where there is no Sadhaka, there is no Mother. They are inseparable.
Devotee:
So, the practitioner and the Mother are complementary?
Guru Shyama Khyapa:
Exactly. They cannot exist without each other. And remember, God is not for "earning" money. Bama-deb didn't call the Mother for money. Tailanga Swami didn't do it. Ramakrishna Paramahansa didn't seek wealth. They renounced possessions.
Guru Shyama Khyapa:
Consider Ramprasad Sen. When King Krishnachandra gave him land and property so he could live comfortably, Ramprasad realized it was a distraction. He wrote in a song: "Now your worldly possessions bite me during my meditation." Whenever he tried to pray, he would think about his property.
Guru Shyama Khyapa:
True Sadhakas don't ask Mother for wealth. Ramprasad wrote: "Mother has taken my burden, She provides my food and clothing." That is faith. If you choose money over God, that becomes your downfall.
Devotee:
Lastly, have you experienced such instances of faith or disbelief here at Shantipunj?
Guru Shyama Khyapa:
Many people have come here with disbelief and later returned to bow at my feet, admitting they were wrong.
Guru Shyama Khyapa:
There was a young man who used to wander from temple to temple. A friend told him to go to the Rajpur Crematorium (Shantipunj). He scoffed, saying, "They all say the same thing. They take your money and shave your head. I won't go." Later, he did come, and the Lord's grace was so immense that he received more than he could have imagined. He couldn't believe the kindness he was shown. He became a believer.
Guru Shyama Khyapa:
I saw another man whose wife used to visit Kali Ghat every Saturday and Tuesday. He would scold her, saying, "I earn the money and you throw it away at Kali Ghat." He would even throw away the Prasad (blessed food). But something happened in his life that brought him to me. He took initiation and now spends two hours every day in prayer and meditation.
Guru Shyama Khyapa:
As I said, Sadhakas don't care about money. Ramprasad said, "Mother has taken my burden." If you have that faith, She will look after you.
Guru Shyama Khyapa:
You may have heard the story of when Ramprasad was away at work and couldn't send money home. His family was starving. The Mother herself came to his house disguised as a low-caste woman carrying a basket of rice, lentils, and food. She told them Ramprasad had sent her. When Ramprasad returned and heard this, he wept. He said, "I have called out to Her for so long and She didn't show Herself to me, but She showed Herself to you."
Guru Shyama Khyapa:
There is also the story of him tying a fence. He thought his daughter was helping him hold the string from the other side, but it was actually the Mother. When he asked his daughter later, she said she had been out playing. He realized the Mother had been there.
Guru Shyama Khyapa:
Eventually, he was initiated by Krishnananda Agam-vagish, who told him he must perform Shab Sadhana (meditation on a corpse) in the crematorium. He did so and saw the Mother. She asked, "Ramprasad, what do you want?" He replied, "Mother, I want Brahma-gyan (Supreme Knowledge)." She granted it. One who gains that knowledge does not stay long in this world. Within a month, after a final prayer, he waded into the Ganges and disappeared.
Guru Shyama Khyapa:
This is the essence of faith and disbelief. If you believe God is here, He is. Think of Prahlad. When his father, Hiranyakashipu, asked if God was in a pillar and struck it, Lord Narasimha emerged.
Guru Shyama Khyapa:
Faith is what keeps humanity going. You must have faith in something—be it a person, a deity, or a teacher. Without faith, there is only loss.
Devotee:
Friends, we have heard a detailed discussion on faith and disbelief from Gurudev. Please subscribe to the "Gupta Sadhak Shyama Khyapa" YouTube channel for more valuable insights. Greetings, Gurudev.
Guru Shyama Khyapa:
Greetings, my son.
Narrator:
(Audio ends with chanting "Om")