GURUDEV:
Pranam, son, pranam. Tell me.
INTERVIEWER:
Gurudev, a few days ago we made a video about a mishap that occurred at the Kumbh Mela. Now, something has happened at Kumbh again. What is your opinion on this?
GURUDEV:
No, no, fire broke out again, and there is chaos. I personally feel that it would have been better if the situation was put under military control. If there were military rule, things would have been better; so many people wouldn't have died. A lot of people have lost their lives.
GURUDEV:
And look, we believe that a pilgrimage site where people die or where a fire breaks out no longer remains a pilgrimage site. We cannot call it a Tirtha (holy site) under any circumstances because all its sanctity, its merits, and its pious elements are destroyed. Nothing remains. Everything is burnt away in the fire.
GURUDEV:
Whose curse was it? Some deity must have surely given a curse; otherwise, this could not have happened. It is simply not possible. Maybe 50 or 60 crore people have arrived—I won't deny that—but controlling such a crowd is only possible for the military. It is not possible for anyone else. Everyone is saying now that it would have been better if the military was there.
GURUDEV:
Among those who have lost their lives, three or four people were from our state (West Bengal), and three or four others are missing. Looking at all this, it doesn't feel good. Why is this happening? Such a massive Kumbh, a 144-year-old cycle... it has been accumulating.
INTERVIEWER:
A 144-year-old conjunction (Yoga)?
GURUDEV:
Yes, it has been accumulating, and it was bound to "blast" one day. It should have blasted this time. Is it because it is the year 2025? Or is it the planetary play of Saturn and Mars? Nothing is clear. Everything has been shut down, but you can't really shut down the site. The Kumbh site will continue, they can't stop the place itself.
GURUDEV:
But whose curse was it? Three or four people—actually many more—have called me saying, "My father has died, so I am going to Kumbh." I feel like slapping them. You are going to Kumbh with the fire of a funeral still on your hands? I received four or five such calls. I told them, "Don't you dare go to Kumbh."
GURUDEV:
Kumbh is a sacred place; don't bring your sins there. There is a "black shadow." When your father or mother dies and you perform the last rites (Mukhagni), it is a period of great mourning. You shouldn't go anywhere during such a time. If you go to Kumbh, your shadow will fall there—your "black shadow" will fall on it. Will that be good for the Kumbh? Who knows how many people have gone there like that? Their sins... so much sin has entered the place. For every one pious soul that goes there, four times more sin has entered.
GURUDEV:
We have a saying: "If you take one pious soul to hell, hell will turn into heaven. But if you take a thousand fools to heaven, they will turn heaven into hell." That is exactly what has happened. Heaven has been turned into hell. Nothing else. Kumbh is a massive event, but people have died due to negligence. People have died before too, but we generally say that if you die in a holy place, your status improves. People think, "I died at Kumbh, it’s a great thing." But the reality is different. It is concerning.
GURUDEV:
There are still three main baths left: the Spring bath (Basant), the Maghi Purnima, and Shivratri. Three baths are remaining. I don't know whose curse this is. Many people asked me, "I am going to Kumbh." I asked them, "Your parents just died, how can you go to Kumbh? You haven't even finished the mourning period." They say, "We are going anyway." Well, then go.
GURUDEV:
This is how the sin accumulates. If a thousand "number two" (dishonest/sinful) people go to heaven, they make it hell. And that is what people have done to this heaven. The "number two" people from every state have entered. There is no screening, no one says anything, and in this way, they have ruined the Kumbh. The result is being suffered by the common people.
INTERVIEWER:
Gurudev, during our discussion on Ganga Sagar, you mentioned the significance of the bath.
GURUDEV:
No, the bath at Ganga Sagar is for the salvation of one's lineage (Vansa Uddhar).
INTERVIEWER:
And at Kumbh?
GURUDEV:
No, specifically at Ganga Sagar, it is for lineage salvation. There is no other primary purpose there. People bathe there to liberate their ancestors. And of course, there is the general significance of the Ganga and the ocean. But consider the numbers: I have been going to Ganga Sagar for 22 years to perform Kali Puja. I have seen, at most, 10 to 15 lakh people. Maybe a bit more in some years. But it is nothing compared to Kumbh. The scale of Kumbh is different.
INTERVIEWER:
There are 50 to 60 crore people.
GURUDEV:
Exactly. And it has been promoted so much. The promotion has been so intense that every single person is energized to go. Anyone and everyone comes to me saying, "I'm going to Kumbh." Even those who shouldn't be going are going. There is a consequence to that—a bad consequence.
INTERVIEWER:
Gurudev, I brought up Ganga Sagar because you previously said that many entities come in visible forms and many in invisible, subtle bodies. You said that when they bathe, the sins of ordinary people are washed away in that water.
GURUDEV:
We call it the "removal of disease and addition of spiritual union" (Jog er og-biog). It is a great spiritual conjunction, so diseases will be removed. When the saints bathe, if their bathwater touches our bodies, our ailments are cured. That is a significant thing. There is nothing saints cannot do. But I don't understand why even the saints are getting caught up in this mess.
GURUDEV:
These things shouldn't happen. It could happen once due to negligence, but why is it happening repeatedly? That is my question. Is there a malicious group behind this? Or have bad people entered to defame the government? To make people afraid? Whatever the cause, people are indeed scared now.
INTERVIEWER:
Gurudev, you hinted at this even before 2025 began. At the start of the Kumbh, you said that the fire had ruined the sanctity of the event.
GURUDEV:
Yes, I am saying it repeatedly. And then people died. A pilgrimage site where people die can no longer be called a pilgrimage; it becomes a cremation ground (Shhmashana Bhumi). It stops being a Tirtha, and the spiritual fruits of the pilgrimage are destroyed. This is as far as I know. No matter how many saints or sages visit, the fact remains that people died. The place becomes unholy. It is no longer the same sacred ground.
GURUDEV:
On top of that, the fire broke out. That is another serious matter. What are the saints doing? They are all prominent saints, what can I say? I am hearing very few statements from them. Anyway, this shouldn't have happened. Why did it happen? Whose sin or whose curse was it? A deity's curse or the curse of the people? I can't quite put my finger on it.
INTERVIEWER:
Gurudev, before we started this video, we were discussing the balance of sin and virtue. When a virtuous act is performed, sinners flock there hoping to gain some merit. Is this happening because the burden of sin has increased?
GURUDEV:
Yes, that is exactly what I feel. The burden of sin has increased, and the event has been promoted in such a way that there's no longer a distinction between sin and virtue—everyone just wants to go. Little children are coming to me for blessings to go to Kumbh. People whose parents just passed away are going. They don't realize that if their "black shadow" falls on the Kumbh, the situation worsens. That is what has happened.
INTERVIEWER:
And perhaps others are suffering the consequences of those bad omens?
GURUDEV:
They are, indeed. They are suffering. They say 30 people died, but who knows how many more? I suspect many more have died and many more are injured.
INTERVIEWER:
We wanted to make this short video because you had already spoken about the Kumbh, but since this mishap happened again...
GURUDEV:
To be honest with you, I don't feel good about it. Now I feel it would be better if the Kumbh just ended. Who knows how many more lives will be lost? The administration seems unable to do anything further. My only point was that in such a situation, the military should have been deployed. Military rule would not have allowed things to escalate this far.
INTERVIEWER:
Pranam, Gurudev.
GURUDEV:
Pranam, son, pranam.